Fitting a Sterling Alternator Regulator to a Yanmar 2GM20F

[Anwen]

Hi, I have come to a complete stop on the job, as I can't work out how to solder the required wires to the alternator brushes. I have split the alternator apart, and it looks like the brush housing is integral to the internal regulator, and is sealed. I am at a loss to understand how it is possible to solder the external control wires to the brushes, as I can't get to the back of them. The only thing I can think of is to solder the wires to the side of the brushes between the slip rings and the brush housing, but that will mean that as the brushes wear, the wires will break.

The alternator has a 60 amp sticker on it, the Yanmar manual says it is a 55amp unit. The engine was new in 2004, but I can't seem to find a Hitachi model number for it.

Any advice on a wet Sunday afternoon would be most welcome!

 

[Ubergeekian]

Have a look at Section 8 of the Adverc installation instructions here. It looks to me as if you have another layer to remove.

 

[Anwen]

Thanks for the link. Having had a look, I think the diagram is an older Hitachi alternator - the unit I have has no internal wiring as such, and I can't split anything further apart without starting to unsolder stator field wiring, and even then, it looks like the splined terminal posts will still stop things coming apart.

 

[vyv_cox]

I think you are right. I added the Adverc kit to my 3GM30F several years ago. I don't remember it looking like that, the wires to the brushes were very obvious.

 

[steve28]

just in case you hadnt spotted the hole in the brushes to allow re assembly, press them both in and insert a cocktail stick.

sorry cant help with your problem although,its a new style hitachi. maybe stirling will be happy and help if you catch them on a good day.

Steve

 

[VicS]

I think you will find that one of the brushes is connected directly to the L terminal in the 2 connector plug .. the other one is a problem, it is connected only the regulator

At the end of the day you only use one of the wires .... but its the one for which there is no alternative connection!

 

[Ubergeekian]

I think the OP has only two sensible routes. Both involve waiting till Monday and then either

• Ringing Mr Stirling and taking advantageous of his famously friendly and helpful customer service or
• Flogging the Stirling on eBay, buying an Adverc regulator, then ring Mr Adverc and take advantage of his famously friendly and helpful customer service.

 

[Anwen]

Further Options

Thanks all of you for the input. I will have another look in a while (assuming that the Grand Prix doesn't restart any time soon) but this has "sealed unit" written all over it. So, I'm starting to think along the lines of a putting the regulator on e-bay (or on the classifieds here) and buying a Sterling alternator to battery charger that doesn't require getting at the brushes. Yet another option is to forget the whole thing and use the existing split charge relay and internal alternator regulator system!

 

[VicS]

Thanks all of you for the input. I will have another look in a while (assuming that the Grand Prix doesn't restart any time soon) but this has "sealed unit" written all over it. So, I'm starting to think along the lines of a putting the regulator on e-bay (or on the classifieds here) and buying a Sterling alternator to battery charger that doesn't require getting at the brushes. Yet another option is to forget the whole thing and use the existing split charge relay and internal alternator regulator system!

If this alternator is " battery sensed" you might just find yourself wondering how to convert it to machine sensing in order to use one of the AB chargers.

 

[vyv_cox]

Thanks all of you for the input. I will have another look in a while (assuming that the Grand Prix doesn't restart any time soon) but this has "sealed unit" written all over it. So, I'm starting to think along the lines of a putting the regulator on e-bay (or on the classifieds here) and buying a Sterling alternator to battery charger that doesn't require getting at the brushes. Yet another option is to forget the whole thing and use the existing split charge relay and internal alternator regulator system!

If you read this articleyou may decide that an alternator regulator is not required anyway.

 

[wizard]

PM sent

 

[mcframe]

If you read this articleyou may decide that an alternator regulator is not required anyway.

<reads in detail>

Very interesting - I agree with much of what it says.

If only I could decide if it's worth fitting a "modern alternator" to a 21-yo 1GM10, instead of my aforementioned bog-stock auto-electrician's exchange/recon (the one that came with a field-sense wire pre-soldered on 'cos I told him that's what the old one had.. )

ObBrushes: They finally failed on my washing machine motor at the weekend - I've ordered some replacements, and a spare set, and a spare belt; the spares will be gaffa-taped *inside* the back cover of the machine for future use, in the spirit of RORC sea-cock-bungs.

 

[CharlesSwallow]

I think the OP has only two sensible routes. Both involve waiting till Monday and then either

• Ringing Mr Stirling and taking advantageous of his famously friendly and helpful customer service or
• Flogging the Stirling on eBay, buying an Adverc regulator, then ring Mr Adverc and take advantage of his famously friendly and helpful customer service.

You'll do far better in improving your battery re-charge time with the Sterling as it makes the alternator work at maximum efficiency whereas the Adverc merely changes the sensing from machine to battery.

Like you say, Charlie Sterling is very helpful, knowledgeable and keen to help. However he doesn't lioke stupid people or time-wasters - I've spoken to him and his assistants on several occassions and always found them courteous. When I spoke to the Adverc bloke it was more of a "Morris Oxford" experience, like going back in time and I could almost smell the burning bakelite. It was he who convinced me to buy my first Sterling!

Since the brushes are replaceable on the Hitachi machine, like most, it must be possible to remove the, what looks like typical, plastic brush carrier in the picture. Really need to be "hands-on" to advise which sadly isn't much help.

Chas

 

[Ubergeekian]

You'll do far better in improving your battery re-charge time with the Sterling as it makes the alternator work at maximum efficiency whereas the Adverc merely changes the sensing from machine to battery.

Nope. The Adverc senses wherever you attach the sensing wire and then tweaks the field to give a multi-level charge process, just like the Stirling.

 

[CharlesSwallow]

Nope. The Adverc senses wherever you attach the sensing wire and then tweaks the field to give a multi-level charge process, just like the Stirling.

That's talking the old dynosaur up a bit I must say! "Multi"? Well I suppose that "2" could be interpreted as "Multi".

"Tweaks"? I don't understand such highly specialised technical terms, I'm afraid but it ain't "...just like the Sterling". It just puts the full, available voltage into the field whereas the Sterling actually INCREASES that voltage to give a vastly superior output to clean the batteries, give them a three stage charge and maintain them once this is reached. The Adverc does NO boosting - Mr Adverc told me that!

The optional monitor also gives you readings of your alternator temperature, battery temperature and the length of time to go to fully charged. Oh yes, and don't be worried about overloading the alternator for if anything is looking like going wrong, the Sterling immediately disconnects itself and reverts to the standard controller.

Chas

 

[Ubergeekian]

That's talking the old dynosaur up a bit I must say! "Multi"? Well I suppose that "2" could be interpreted as "Multi".

"Tweaks"? I don't understand such highly specialised technical terms, I'm afraid but it ain't "...just like the Sterling". It just puts the full, available voltage into the field whereas the Sterling actually INCREASES that voltage to give a vastly superior output to clean the batteries, give them a three stage charge and maintain them once this is reached. The Adverc does NO boosting - Mr Adverc told me that!

They both do essentially the same thing - tweaking (google it if you're having problems) the field supply to produce a desired charging profile at the battery. What precisely that charging profile is is a second order issue.

It's certainly nothing whatsoever to do with battery vs machine sensing.

 

[VicMallows]

whereas the Sterling actually INCREASES that voltage to give a vastly superior output to clean the batteries, give them a three stage charge and maintain them once this is reached.

It doesn't do anything of the sort. It is simply an additional regulator which because it is parallel to the original one can increase the field current, and thereby the alternator output voltage.

The three stages are:

1) A ramp up of alternator voltage over about 20seconds when first switched on (to minimise any tendency of belt slip).

2) If set for ordinary flooded vented batteries, then a timed 1hour aprox at 14.7v. (other battery types have lower 'boost' voltages; I have not checked if the time changes).

3) The voltage drops to 13.8v (higher if the alternators own regulator happens to be higher).


If the Sterling is switched OFF then back ON (or engine stopped and started) then the exact same sequence is repeated ... and so on.

In the vast majority of situations this charging regime works well, though it is certainly not the absolutely perfect solution by some way.

(if Mr Sterling disagrees with the above I am always happy to discuss).

Vic

 

[CharlesSwallow]

It doesn't do anything of the sort. It is simply an additional regulator which because it is parallel to the original one can increase the field current, and thereby the alternator output voltage.

The three stages are:

1) A ramp up of alternator voltage over about 20seconds when first switched on (to minimise any tendency of belt slip).2) If set for ordinary flooded vented batteries, then a timed 1hour aprox at 14.7v. (other battery types have lower 'boost' voltages; I have not checked if the time changes).

3) The voltage drops to 13.8v (higher if the alternators own regulator happens to be higher).


If the Sterling is switched OFF then back ON (or engine stopped and started) then the exact same sequence is repeated ... and so on.

In the vast majority of situations this charging regime works well, though it is certainly not the absolutely perfect solution by some way.

(if Mr Sterling disagrees with the above I am always happy to discuss).

Vic

**How is that going to MINIMISE belt slip for god's sake? Absolute NONSENSE! Increasing the field voltage and therefore the output will INCREASE the resistance in the alternator and therefore INCREASE the tendency for the belt to slip - FACT. The real reason for this very high initial voltage is plate cleaning - read the owner instructions. This very "ramping up" as you call it needs a higher field voltage than can be obtained from the standard regulator, something like 15.6 - 16V if my memory serves which cannot be obtained from the system by any other means than to utilise a circuit within the Sterling to create it. The Adverc has no such circuitry.

**Is this your "2."? If so, wrong again as this period is variable and dependent upon battery type (pre-programmed by user), capacity and start condition. It CAN be a little as I hour but is more likely with fridge runnimng overnight to be between 75 and 120 minutes or more but this will be predicted on the remote monitor.

You seem a little vague and uncertain of your facts so I'm not sure that Charles Sterling would necessarily want to discuss much with you at all! Take it from me who has used his controllers ever since they were first introduced and tried and returned an Adverc as not suitable for purpose AND ADMITTED AS SUCH BY THE MANUFACTURER, that the Sterling gives a superior solution to the problem experienced by Med boat owners in needing rapid morning re-charging whilst at the same time protecting the alternator and the batteries. MY batteries needed changing at ten years on this boat and I sold the previous one at seven but the owner kept the same batteries for a further four.

Chas

 

[Ubergeekian]

**How is that going to MINIMISE belt slip for god's sake? Absolute NONSENSE!

Maybe you should ask Mr Stirling? On his website he clearly states

The system ramps up the current over a short period of time to reduce the chance of alternator belt slip.​

I presume it's to reduce the electrical generation load on the belt when it is also having to accelerate the alternator rotor to operating speed. I'm sure you'd have noticed that worn alternator belts in cars tend to squeal first under acceleration for precisely this reason.

You seem a little vague and uncertain of your facts so I'm not sure that Charles Sterling would necessarily want to discuss much with you at all!

Your contributions are certainly not bedevilled by vagueness or uncertainty. Do let us know how you get on when you tell Mr Stirling that his "Slow start" explanation is "absolute nonsense". Sorry, that should have been "absolute NONSENSE".

 

[charles_reed]

You'll do far better in improving your battery re-charge time with the Sterling as it makes the alternator work at maximum efficiency whereas the Adverc merely changes the sensing from machine to battery.

Like you say, Charlie Sterling is very helpful, knowledgeable and keen to help. However he doesn't lioke stupid people or time-wasters - I've spoken to him and his assistants on several occassions and always found them courteous. When I spoke to the Adverc bloke it was more of a "Morris Oxford" experience, like going back in time and I could almost smell the burning bakelite. It was he who convinced me to buy my first Sterling!

Since the brushes are replaceable on the Hitachi machine, like most, it must be possible to remove the, what looks like typical, plastic brush carrier in the picture. Really need to be "hands-on" to advise which sadly isn't much help.

Chas

You need to check your facts Mr Swallow.

Unless, of course, the mistakes are deliberate re the Adverc gear.