Why did you stand on so long? You were less than 20 seconds from impact when he responded to your sound signal.
Fishing boat nearly runs me down!!!
- Thread starter starboard
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Fascadale
Well-known member
I used to be a fisherman off the West Coast of Scotland.
We were always very careful of yotties: mostly amateurs, the ones with the flappy things would make all sorts of unpredictable turns, the ones racing were convinced they were Gods gift and did what they wanted.
All we were doing was trying to make a living, day in day out whatever the weather, almost.
It was safer in foul weather, most of the yotties, especially the clueless ones were tucked up in harbours
We were always very careful of yotties: mostly amateurs, the ones with the flappy things would make all sorts of unpredictable turns, the ones racing were convinced they were Gods gift and did what they wanted.
All we were doing was trying to make a living, day in day out whatever the weather, almost.
It was safer in foul weather, most of the yotties, especially the clueless ones were tucked up in harbours
StugeronSteve
New member
I absolutely agree that there are some complete idiots amongst the recreational users of the sea. However, there are a majority that strive to attain high standards of seamanship. Should not the professionals pride themselves on setting the highest standards? I too am wary of other yachts and have experienced close calls with boats cruisng along on autopilot, whilst the helm and watch chew the fat over a cup of tea. But I have also, on more than one occasion, seen a fisherman working single handed, on the aft deck of his boat, whilst charging down a crowded Solent on autopilot. Setting aside the considerable risk of collision, what would happen if the daft bugger got himself tagled in his gear or winches?
starboard
Active member
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Why did you stand on so long? You were less than 20 seconds from impact when he responded to your sound signal.
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!!!!!!!!! You obviouslly never read the thread properly....I was sailing towards Troon, the fishing vessel was doing the same and overtaking me from dead astern so where do I bludy go??????? It was not until the last moment I realised he was not going to pass close by but probably hit me!!! Lets say then as stand on vessel I start to move north or south to get away from him, doing so may indeed increase the problem!! After spending most of my life at sea and a good few years as an RNLI coxwain that is the first time I really started to fear for my future!!! not until you have been in that situation will you realise what the problems are....a small 25ft sailing vessel is no meat against a 70ft trawler with no one on the bridge!!!
Paul.
Why did you stand on so long? You were less than 20 seconds from impact when he responded to your sound signal.
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!!!!!!!!! You obviouslly never read the thread properly....I was sailing towards Troon, the fishing vessel was doing the same and overtaking me from dead astern so where do I bludy go??????? It was not until the last moment I realised he was not going to pass close by but probably hit me!!! Lets say then as stand on vessel I start to move north or south to get away from him, doing so may indeed increase the problem!! After spending most of my life at sea and a good few years as an RNLI coxwain that is the first time I really started to fear for my future!!! not until you have been in that situation will you realise what the problems are....a small 25ft sailing vessel is no meat against a 70ft trawler with no one on the bridge!!!
Paul.
Fascadale
Well-known member
Nice to read a slightly more balanced view creeping into the discussion.
I have friends who work creel boats singlehanded, I agree, a dangerous occupation.
On the subject of who is the more dangerous user of the sea, and without wishing to unduly upset those former employees of the grey funnel line.............
..............I can't remember an example of a fishing boat sinking a warship and causing a loss of life but one used to hear stories of warships, submarines dragging down fishing boats. I can't remember if the case was ever proved or whether it was a US sub or a British one that was in the frame.
Be safe
I have friends who work creel boats singlehanded, I agree, a dangerous occupation.
On the subject of who is the more dangerous user of the sea, and without wishing to unduly upset those former employees of the grey funnel line.............
..............I can't remember an example of a fishing boat sinking a warship and causing a loss of life but one used to hear stories of warships, submarines dragging down fishing boats. I can't remember if the case was ever proved or whether it was a US sub or a British one that was in the frame.
Be safe
Dyflin
Active member
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I absolutely agree that there are some complete idiots amongst the recreational users of the sea. However, there are a majority that strive to attain high standards of seamanship.
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STOP IT!! I nearly spat my coffee out when I read that one, a real classic!
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I absolutely agree that there are some complete idiots amongst the recreational users of the sea. However, there are a majority that strive to attain high standards of seamanship.
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STOP IT!! I nearly spat my coffee out when I read that one, a real classic!
/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
pessimist
Well-known member
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Incidentally, if the fishing signal is welded to the rigging the vessel will not get a MCA certificate, neither would it if the fishing lights cannot be turned off.
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Matter of curiosity, how often is an MCA certificate required. There are certainly fishing boats in Dartmouth who've had the fishing signal welded to their rigging for at least 10 years!
Cheers,
Colin
Incidentally, if the fishing signal is welded to the rigging the vessel will not get a MCA certificate, neither would it if the fishing lights cannot be turned off.
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Matter of curiosity, how often is an MCA certificate required. There are certainly fishing boats in Dartmouth who've had the fishing signal welded to their rigging for at least 10 years!
Cheers,
Colin
starboard
Active member
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..............I can't remember an example of a fishing boat sinking a warship and causing a loss of life but one used to hear stories of warships, submarines dragging down fishing boats. I can't remember if the case was ever proved or whether it was a US sub or a British one that was in the frame.
Be safe
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Yes as then 2nd Cox of the Troon lifeboat I spent 2 days searching for the crew of the Antares after she was dragged under by one of our own RN subs in the Clyde!!
Paul.
..............I can't remember an example of a fishing boat sinking a warship and causing a loss of life but one used to hear stories of warships, submarines dragging down fishing boats. I can't remember if the case was ever proved or whether it was a US sub or a British one that was in the frame.
Be safe
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes as then 2nd Cox of the Troon lifeboat I spent 2 days searching for the crew of the Antares after she was dragged under by one of our own RN subs in the Clyde!!
Paul.
Fascadale
Well-known member
Seems it was a British submarine
1990
November 22. In the north Irish Sea, off the Isle of Arran, the Trafalgar class nuclear attack boat Trenchant snagged the nets of the Scottish fishing boat Antares, based at Carradale, Kintyre. Four Scottish fishermen died. The Plymouth-based Trenchant reported to its base that it had hit the gear of a fishing boat. The navy said it surfaced to investigate unexplained sounds on her starboard side. Mr. Hamilton reported to the House of Commons that the crew recovered a length of trawl cable from its casing and, assuming that it might have snagged the gear of a fishing vessel, tried unsuccessfully to contact neighboring fishing vessels on the VHF radio. It could see “nothing amiss” and left the scene after contacting lifeguards. A large search, involving a naval frigate and a mine sweeper as well as naval helicopters, found pieces of red wreckage, the same color as the Antares and it was conclusively discovered that it had been snagged by the submarine Trenchant.
Taken from the internet. www.geocities.com/nmdecke/Subfishing.html
Don't know how reliable the source is
I am yet to read of an example of the actions of a fishing boat leading to a loss of life, other than the lives of the fishermen themselves.
1990
November 22. In the north Irish Sea, off the Isle of Arran, the Trafalgar class nuclear attack boat Trenchant snagged the nets of the Scottish fishing boat Antares, based at Carradale, Kintyre. Four Scottish fishermen died. The Plymouth-based Trenchant reported to its base that it had hit the gear of a fishing boat. The navy said it surfaced to investigate unexplained sounds on her starboard side. Mr. Hamilton reported to the House of Commons that the crew recovered a length of trawl cable from its casing and, assuming that it might have snagged the gear of a fishing vessel, tried unsuccessfully to contact neighboring fishing vessels on the VHF radio. It could see “nothing amiss” and left the scene after contacting lifeguards. A large search, involving a naval frigate and a mine sweeper as well as naval helicopters, found pieces of red wreckage, the same color as the Antares and it was conclusively discovered that it had been snagged by the submarine Trenchant.
Taken from the internet. www.geocities.com/nmdecke/Subfishing.html
Don't know how reliable the source is
I am yet to read of an example of the actions of a fishing boat leading to a loss of life, other than the lives of the fishermen themselves.
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You obviously never read the thread properly
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I re-read it a few times and even Googled for the knot to meter per second conversion figure in order to try to understand your decision process.
You observed a potential collision situation over 15+ minutes, at collision -5 minutes you concluded a collision was imminent and there was probably no one in the trawler wheelhouse. Between 60 and 30 seconds before assumed impact you sounded a warning.
I would have turned 90 degrees to port at 400 meters on the assumption that an instinctive belated correction by the trawler skipper would have been to starboard.
You obviously never read the thread properly
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I re-read it a few times and even Googled for the knot to meter per second conversion figure in order to try to understand your decision process.
You observed a potential collision situation over 15+ minutes, at collision -5 minutes you concluded a collision was imminent and there was probably no one in the trawler wheelhouse. Between 60 and 30 seconds before assumed impact you sounded a warning.
I would have turned 90 degrees to port at 400 meters on the assumption that an instinctive belated correction by the trawler skipper would have been to starboard.
starboard
Active member
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You obviously never read the thread properly
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I re-read it a few times and even Googled for the knot to meter per second conversion figure in order to try to understand your decision process.
You observed a potential collision situation over 15+ minutes, at collision -5 minutes you concluded a collision was imminent and there was probably no one in the trawler wheelhouse. Between 60 and 30 seconds before assumed impact you sounded a warning.
I would have turned 90 degrees to port at 400 meters on the assumption that an instinctive belated correction by the trawler skipper would have been to starboard.
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Looks like in your shoes the fishermen can do no wrong!!!!! we may as well all tear up the IRPCS and run and hide whenever we see a fishing boat......dont get me wrong if ever I come close to a F.V towing its gear I will ALWAYS remain well clear, in this instance when a boat is returning to port with no gear deployed I expect the skipper to behave in a proffesional way as indeed I always do at sea!!!
Paul.
[ QUOTE ]
You obviously never read the thread properly
[/ QUOTE ]
I re-read it a few times and even Googled for the knot to meter per second conversion figure in order to try to understand your decision process.
You observed a potential collision situation over 15+ minutes, at collision -5 minutes you concluded a collision was imminent and there was probably no one in the trawler wheelhouse. Between 60 and 30 seconds before assumed impact you sounded a warning.
I would have turned 90 degrees to port at 400 meters on the assumption that an instinctive belated correction by the trawler skipper would have been to starboard.
[/ QUOTE ]
Looks like in your shoes the fishermen can do no wrong!!!!! we may as well all tear up the IRPCS and run and hide whenever we see a fishing boat......dont get me wrong if ever I come close to a F.V towing its gear I will ALWAYS remain well clear, in this instance when a boat is returning to port with no gear deployed I expect the skipper to behave in a proffesional way as indeed I always do at sea!!!
Paul.
earlybird
Well-known member
[ QUOTE ]
November 22. In the north Irish Sea, off the Isle of Arran, ----
Taken from the internet. www.geocities.com/nmdecke/Subfishing.html
Don't know how reliable the source is. quote //
Unless Arran has moved then it seems that the source isn't too reliable
November 22. In the north Irish Sea, off the Isle of Arran, ----
Taken from the internet. www.geocities.com/nmdecke/Subfishing.html
Don't know how reliable the source is. quote //
Unless Arran has moved then it seems that the source isn't too reliable
starboard
Active member
As for the Antares incident, the vessel was snagged and sunk by HMS Trenchant in the early hours about 0300 on a calm and clear night. We launched the Lifeboat from troon about 1100 as it was not until this time that the Navy told their story. we searched in perfect weather conditions all day gathering small pieces of debris, another F/V located an object on the seabed with its sonar during the day and there was evidence of fuel oil coming from this contact. The next day we launched again and spent the day searching in near gale conditions.........eventually some weeks later the wreck was identified on the seabed as the sonar contact earlier found, after many attempts by the Navy to recover it a civillian company were called into lift the wreck, it was then that all bodies were found still aboard......the wreck now is an exhibit at the Scottish maritime museum at Irvine, only 10 miles away from where it was sunk!!
Paul.
Paul.
Loginname
New member
Not to justify the fishermen at all but........
Maybe, just maybe, Jonjo has a point?
Put your hand on your heart and ask yourself if you would do the same next time. Or would you alter course to avoid the situation? Hand on heart now /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
Not to defend the fishing boat at all.
Incidently; top marks for identifying the vessel concerned. I often wonder why people post stories like this and are then unecessarily coy about naming and shaming. It makes a pleasant change.
Maybe, just maybe, Jonjo has a point?
Put your hand on your heart and ask yourself if you would do the same next time. Or would you alter course to avoid the situation? Hand on heart now /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
Not to defend the fishing boat at all.
Incidently; top marks for identifying the vessel concerned. I often wonder why people post stories like this and are then unecessarily coy about naming and shaming. It makes a pleasant change.
DownWest
Well-known member
Seem to remember a RN sub sunk a yacht in the Irish sea a few years ago. Went down so fast they couldn´t launch the raft, but were able to get a quick message off. The sub´s guard boat heard it and picked them up after a few minutes, luckily as the skipper ( a church minister IIRR) couldn´t inflate his LJ and was being supported by his crew (family). In the 90s?
Off the S. coast of spain and portugal we always kept well clear of the fishing boats as the lights and signals were rarely used. At night it got very interesting.
Andrew
Off the S. coast of spain and portugal we always kept well clear of the fishing boats as the lights and signals were rarely used. At night it got very interesting.
Andrew
WindFinder
N/A
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Looks like in your shoes the fishermen can do no wrong!!!!!
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Doesn't really matter if he's right or wrong. He's not on the bridge to avoid wiping you out, in contrast you were up and about and aware of the situation and could get the hell out of his way easily.
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we may as well all tear up the IRPCS and run and hide whenever we see a fishing boat
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I'd have to say that would be very prudent. Keeping out of the way regardless of the rights and wrongs seems a pretty wise course of action.
Looks like in your shoes the fishermen can do no wrong!!!!!
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Doesn't really matter if he's right or wrong. He's not on the bridge to avoid wiping you out, in contrast you were up and about and aware of the situation and could get the hell out of his way easily.
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we may as well all tear up the IRPCS and run and hide whenever we see a fishing boat
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I'd have to say that would be very prudent. Keeping out of the way regardless of the rights and wrongs seems a pretty wise course of action.
fisherman
Well-known member
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we always kept well clear of the fishing boats as the lights and signals were rarely used. At night it got very interesting.
Andrew
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An ex-merchant seaman relates that he was OOW in the South China sea many years ago, at night, and suddenly got the impression he had seen a man on a toilet, dead ahead. Must be imagining things. Back to pitch darkness, then he saw it again. Turned out there was a fishing boat ahead with no lights at all, but the toilet door was swinging open and shut.
MCA certs are every five years for the under ten metre boats, probably the same for the bigger ones, but they get DTI as well, or whatever it's called these days. All signals must be able to be lowered and raised at will.
With my insurance, no cert no cover.
we always kept well clear of the fishing boats as the lights and signals were rarely used. At night it got very interesting.
Andrew
[/ QUOTE ]
An ex-merchant seaman relates that he was OOW in the South China sea many years ago, at night, and suddenly got the impression he had seen a man on a toilet, dead ahead. Must be imagining things. Back to pitch darkness, then he saw it again. Turned out there was a fishing boat ahead with no lights at all, but the toilet door was swinging open and shut.
MCA certs are every five years for the under ten metre boats, probably the same for the bigger ones, but they get DTI as well, or whatever it's called these days. All signals must be able to be lowered and raised at will.
With my insurance, no cert no cover.
fisherman
Well-known member
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Year before last, looked up to see a French yacht, motoring, going along my port side about 6 inches away. There's idiots on all sides.
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Erm, can I suggest that if you didn't see the yacht until it was 6 inches away then you weren't keeping a proper lookout /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
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Absolutely. No idea where he came from, dull grey day, dull grey yacht. As i say, I should have taken steps. A friend was run into by a beamer on passage while he was hauling gear, and it was still partly his fault. Trouble is, you assume another fishing boat may just be coming by to say hello.
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Year before last, looked up to see a French yacht, motoring, going along my port side about 6 inches away. There's idiots on all sides.
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Erm, can I suggest that if you didn't see the yacht until it was 6 inches away then you weren't keeping a proper lookout /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
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Absolutely. No idea where he came from, dull grey day, dull grey yacht. As i say, I should have taken steps. A friend was run into by a beamer on passage while he was hauling gear, and it was still partly his fault. Trouble is, you assume another fishing boat may just be coming by to say hello.
starboard
Active member
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Put your hand on your heart and ask yourself if you would do the same next time. Or would you alter course to avoid the situation? Hand on heart now
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Yes I bludy would......where did you expect me to go.......if the IRPCS are to be of any use we must ALL abide by them and fully understand them....this was not a converging situation but a vessel coming fast up behind me....I assume as a fishing skipper he has half an ounce of sense and will take action to overtake me at a reasonable distance.....I do not expect no one to be in the wheel house and technically the vessel not under command!!!......At Troon we operate out of a busy fishing port and after 35 years of sailing and lifeboating out of here this is the first instance that this has happened and hopefully will be the last.......just out of interst the Clyde Fishermans Association are now invstigating the incident, watch this space!!!
Paul.
Put your hand on your heart and ask yourself if you would do the same next time. Or would you alter course to avoid the situation? Hand on heart now
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Yes I bludy would......where did you expect me to go.......if the IRPCS are to be of any use we must ALL abide by them and fully understand them....this was not a converging situation but a vessel coming fast up behind me....I assume as a fishing skipper he has half an ounce of sense and will take action to overtake me at a reasonable distance.....I do not expect no one to be in the wheel house and technically the vessel not under command!!!......At Troon we operate out of a busy fishing port and after 35 years of sailing and lifeboating out of here this is the first instance that this has happened and hopefully will be the last.......just out of interst the Clyde Fishermans Association are now invstigating the incident, watch this space!!!
Paul.
tangomoon
New member
And this had to happen before you realised fishermen don't give a Castlemaine xxxx for crappy yotties or WAFIs (wind assisted f***ing idiots) as the RNLI call them