Fisher 46 - First in 15 years!

Absolutely right. Aily's Comet is sistership to Medicine Man and White Pointer. With Medicine Man having won the Aukland to Suva race in '94 (I think). So yes, you are right, no slouch at all!

When did you see MM?

CelebrityScandal - I tried to send you a private message but your system isn't accepting them. You are obviously a kindred spirit and also know the kiwi yachting scene better than most. Please drop me a PM, it would be good to make contact.

Rob
 
Bajan. That's cool. I get all sorts of boats too. The happiest trip of my life was on a a 'sluggard' Hillyard 33ft Ketch with my loved one motorsailing up and down the Dutch canals and inland zees. The wooden cosiness was/is irreplaceable.

But in the offshore context I was just trying to make the point that in the speed vs comfort equation, speed is often under-rated.

The Colin Archer you referred to (like the Hillyard) only gets going in F5-6 but that is quite a fresh breeze and mostly you want to be able to enjoy optimum boat speed in the Trades in F3-4.

Also, you will often find yourself going tighter on the wind than you want to and again, having a vessel that will seriously drop off performance as the wind comes forward of the beam is not good when the wind shifts and you have still got 300nm to cover.

Anyway, my original 4kts 'sticker quip' obviously touched a raw nerve and didn't go down well and we'll just have to agree that different tastes require different offerings to be served.

I guess you know where my preference lies.

I'll try to save an anchorage for you when you arrive! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Checked, a Medicine Man, Lidgard 35 seems was in Hawaii for the Kenwood Cup 1994 and won its IMS class, Duthie Lidgard, NZ so must be the sister to yours.

Sorry I don't do PMs, for reasons that may be obvious.

Regarding knowledge of NZ boats it would be unusual for anyone involved in yachting and gets around not to have some. The likes of Farr, Davidson, Holland, etc set off such enormous changes to yacht design back in the 1970's that is hard to avoid it as all race boats and modern designed cruising vessels come from that.

Have come across some very nice and very fast NZ designed and built crusing boats the like of which don't seem to be built in the UK. Lightly built with foam, kevlar, carbon, etc and often very simply rigged with such as no traveller so vang sheeted, etc. Came across one about 55 foot with just retired couple, had just come through Southen Ocean around Cape Horn up into Atlantic and they seemed to have survived despite not having a long keel, no skeg and being around the same weight as the 33 footer mentioned above even though they were a much bigger boat.

Some similar boats coming out of France and Italy too but the UK seems to have got itself into the backwater as far as fast strong cruising boat design is concerned and maybe some of the views shown on this forum reflect why /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif.
 
Yup Duthie Lidgard is the designer, I actually know him quite well. He is back in NZ but the small scale of the NZ market really doesn't make it economical for the NZ boatbuilding industry to churn out small production cruisers anymore (not helped by a change in government boat tax a few years back which killed things). Instead, they focus on one-offs, racers (like Maximus) and, of course, the superyachts which the likes of Alloy yachts churns out at a steady rate. It seems that if you have pile of dosh to spend on a custom superyacht, NZ is one of the places of choice to design and build.

Back at the more affordable end of the scale, the names you mention do indeed represent fine criusers and/or racers. Here's a lovely example of a capable all-rounder, a Farr 46.

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Foam composite construction and correspondingly strong, stiff and light (about 9t I believe). And she's as fast and capable as she looks. Has been cruised around the world and also campaigned very successfully at many of the world's top regattas around Aus, US and Europe. She has a deep fin keel with a bulb which, of course, the purists would be appalled at and cite all sorts of reasons to avoid. But it hasn't stopped this boat sailing safe and fast all around the world in a variety of modes. I considered buying her last year but the owner decided he couldn't find a better alternative and kept her for another offshore stint. Don't blame him.

If I was forced to pick a Euro production equivalent I would probably look at the Elan stable (and maybe consider re-foiling).

If/when I ever return to the UK I have thought about bringing over a kiwi design, something like this or maybe Davidson or Elliot or Cookson. Something akin to that pictured above would cost GBP120-150k. And the Ben/Bav/Jen brigade wouldn't see which way I went!
 
I notice that the reincarnated Fisher 46 seems to be going into regular production, and is being offered by Berthon of Spain, with a demo boat available for inspection at Palma.

The photos suggest it is a replica of Ceres rather than of the original Fisher 46.

As I would be interested in a motorsailer for family use I would like to know what the three cabin layout is. For a family, in my opinion, ideally a boat should have one double and two twins, yet so many designers seem to offer only doubles (see this for the original 46 in the Northshore archive: http://www.northshore.co.uk/NSHtml/fisher/fish46.htm).*

I suppose cruising with other couples may appeal to some but definitely not to me.

*Sorry, the link does not seem to be working, but the layout on the archive page shows four doubles, each with ensuite head, two of which seem to require the bed to be entered from the pillow end!.
 
Does Mustang Sally still belong to Warren?

We met him in the Eastern Caribbean in various places and also in Antigua when he won his class in the Antigua regatta.

I have lost Warrens contact details and if you have them I would be grateful if you could pass them onto me via a PM or get him to e-mail us


John and Sheila

SV Triumphant
Belize
Central America
 
It looks like the demo Fisher 46 is now for sale and it is obviously Ceres:http://www.jameslist.com/advert/32339#(F=(T=|tab2|)), price close on 800,000 euros, a lot more than any original Fisher 46 even allowing for inflation over the past 40 years.
 
Many years evaluating my Ideal craft (dozens of contenders) The 46 is #1

A terriffic yacht offering optimum safety & live-aboard comfort for a small family on a long voyage:):). I've been watching this design since the largest version was the 37.
It inspires a fair amount of Passion
For a time I favored the Valient 40 - an undeniably seaworthy craft, but demanding a good deal more exposure to the elements than the Fisher. I hope more of these steel hull 46's will be coming down the weighs in years to come. It is Timeless.:)
 
CelebrityScandel said:
Looking through some of the details some have posted of their own boats recently are

44 foot 22 tons
35 foot 12 tons
33 foot 10 tons

Now these are seriously, and dangerously overweight in that they are close to being twice as heavy as what one would normally call a heavy boat.
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If the weights are correct. For reasons I dont understand, the weight of their boat appears to some people to be, like the size of their willy, the length of the fish they caught, the speed of their car etc, a reason for exaggeration. The heavier the better.

See it all the time at our club. Recently had the owner of a Moody 346 telling me that his boat weighed 12 tonnes and not the 4 tonnes than my more modern Moody 336 weighed.

Often the exaggeration comes from taking seriously the weights given out by crane drivers and then rounding up.

In short I would ignore what people say about boat weights and instead use the www data or just guess.
 
jason -and the arguenauts said:
See it all the time at our club. Recently had the owner of a Moody 346 telling me that his boat weighed 12 tonnes and not the 4 tonnes than my more modern Moody 336 weighed.
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I was rafted alongside a Westerly Conway 36 the other day and the crew told me the displacement was 13 tons. It was a nonsense figure but having experienced the fragile temperament of Westerly sailors I did tackle him on the numbers.
 
Accurate weights?

I wonder how many boats have been accurately weighed? Manufacturers' stated displacements, particularly for older boats, seem likely to be very approximate.

Our own boat (24 years old) has a builder's stated displacement of 5.7 tons. But the same boat with a very small sugarscoop platform added is said to displace 6.4 tons. As the two models are otherwise almost identical I find it hard to believe that sticking on an 11" platform, which doesn't even extend the waterline length, adds threequarters of a ton.

When recently lifted by crane, with no mast and with empty tanks, the crane registered 7.2 tons. Deducting a small amount for the slings produces a figure enormously at odds with stated displacement.

What other practical methods exist for assessing actual displacement?
 
Coaster said:
.

What other practical methods exist for assessing actual displacement?
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Calculating the underwater volume of the hull will give you the volume/weight of the water displaced. However, complicated calculation given the shape of a boat. So most older boats were "guessed" at for a number of reasons - difficulty of calculation, belief of many that weight was good so the more the better, and poor controls over building process. Then add all the clobber added over the years (easily a ton or more on a 30-35ft cruiser) and you can see how far out you can be.

Modern designs usually have more accurate displacements because the 'puter does it for you. But you still need to know if it is light or in cruising trim . For example my boat has a design displacement (light) of 5360kg. Just filling the fuel and water tanks adds over 400kg or 8% to that - before I add the beer etc. I would estimate the ready to go displacement at about 6500kg.
 
Twister_Ken said:
Does the genoa sheet really go all the way back to the stern platform, before turning?
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Ken - it looks like it is sheeted first to the rail , quite far foreward, and only goes to the sterm for a clear angle to the winch. If she was a cutter with a big yankee, then perhaps it would be sheeted on the stern.
 
Coaster said:
That's why I wrote practical method.

I wondered whether the marine equivalent of a vehicle weighbridge existed.
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Not that I am aware of except for the load guage on a crane. However these seem very unreliable based on wide variations people report.
 
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