first question: liveaboard, portugal perhaps?

[wolffie]

hello everyone, first time poster. not a boat owner yet.

my question: as i get to know my (hoped-for) boat and build self-confidence, at least initially, i want to be in a marina where there is:

community, hopefully an international community (English being my first language)
good folks on boats
access to chandlery and hopefully yard
a safe environment for single female
warm-ish through winter
not too expensive
enjoyable sailing
vegetable market

and, specifically, does anyone know what it is like to liveaboard in vila real st antonia, in portugal?

i'm assuming it is possible (read that it was, somewhere...). i am an eu citizen, which makes things easier (hopefully).

thank you kindly,

wolffie

 

[V1701]

Most marinas you should be fine, they tend to be pretty secure and there are usually at least a few liveaboards everywhere. You are very fortunate indeed, I was hoping to do exactly what you propose but as a UK citizen needed to get temporary residency before the end of last year and was unable to. For me the dream has gone, for now, something will come up at some point though. For you, do it or you will regret not having tried...

Best of luck, oh and welcome to the forum...

 

[25931]

Most marinas you should be fine, they tend to be pretty secure and there are usually at least a few liveaboards everywhere. You are very fortunate indeed, I was hoping to do exactly what you propose but as a UK citizen needed to get temporary residency before the end of last year and was unable to. For me the dream has gone, for now, something will come up at some point though. For you, do it or you will regret not having tried...

Best of luck, oh and welcome to the forum...

Why can you not get residência now ?

 

[wolffie]

Most marinas you should be fine, they tend to be pretty secure and there are usually at least a few liveaboards everywhere. You are very fortunate indeed, I was hoping to do exactly what you propose but as a UK citizen needed to get temporary residency before the end of last year and was unable to. For me the dream has gone, for now, something will come up at some point though. For you, do it or you will regret not having tried...

Best of luck, oh and welcome to the forum...

thanks for your response. the scarity-issue is a real one, but i'm hoping i'll find a spot somewhere.

and yes, i admit that i'm disappointed with the outcome of this brexi-divorce, was so looking forward to making friends with brits! seriously, i cannot imagine how the eu will survive without british humour.

i do have my fingers crossed tightly, hoping that exceptions will be made.

 

[RAI]

Vila Real S. Antonio Marina and town very liveable. The current through the marina makes slack water entry and exit desirable.
I prefer Ayamonte, across the river in Spain from VSRA. Easy access and more affordable if you take an annual contract. Town as good as VSRA, in my opinion.
For social life, Lagos in Portugal is hard to beat. Have a look at the other threads here in Liveaboard Link forum.

 

[wolffie]

thanks RAI for the feedback on VRSA (town and its current!!).

-for VRSA: i do not mind small, quiet places. being in lockdown as much as i have, socialising again may actually involve a steep learning curve!

-remember Lagos being very much the young-crowd's party place long ago, but it was lovely! i hear that marina fees are much higher there, as well.

-spain, for me would need to be limited to under 6 mos. at a time, or else i could be considered a "resident" and pay on my income there too (not to mention value of the boat).

-i do not know the ins and outs of these rules for portugal yet, but from what i understand, one isn't financially penalised if one becomes a resident. for the first year or so, i just want to be able to practice, get my bearings, become more confident. the learning curve is steep

will check out the other threads here, as suggested.

thank you for your helpful reply!

Vila Real S. Antonio Marina and town very liveable. The current through the marina makes slack water entry and exit desirable.
I prefer Ayamonte, across the river in Spain from VSRA. Easy access and more affordable if you take an annual contract. Town as good as VSRA, in my opinion.
For social life, Lagos in Portugal is hard to beat. Have a look at the other threads here in Liveaboard Link forum.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Most marinas you should be fine, they tend to be pretty secure and there are usually at least a few liveaboards everywhere. You are very fortunate indeed, I was hoping to do exactly what you propose but as a UK citizen needed to get temporary residency before the end of last year and was unable to. For me the dream has gone, for now, something will come up at some point though. For you, do it or you will regret not having tried...

Best of luck, oh and welcome to the forum...

Stop listening to forum if you want residence sail out find the country and apply I know three couple who have applied and got residence this year , two in Greece and one in Italy

 

[Yngmar]

We liked the town of VRSA a lot, but the marina much less so. Facilities were a joke and surcharges for everything. Don't recall noticing much of a liveaboard community, but we only stopped there for a couple nights. Perhaps things have improved since 2017 though. Blog excerpt:

The town of VRSA was lovely. We were berthed two minutes from the center, there were all sorts of shops everywhere, an art exhibit along the river, a municipal market, a flea market and Lidl within walking distance along completely flat roads. Unlike previous stops on the western Algarve, tourism here had not (yet?) overwhelmed the town, prices were much more normal and the shops were selling household supplies instead of cork handbags. Elvyra even spotted a Russian/East-European food store.

The marina itself was not brilliant. Staff was polite, but rather inflexible, and the facilities were clearly an afterthought, being squeezed into a former storage room in the center of the restaurant. It was so tight you had to open the door of the toilet cabin to pull your pants up. No Wifi, electricity cost an extra fee and there was a 20% markup for the alongside pontoon, which of course was the only one with space. We watched the locals do some exciting berthing while the river current was in full flow, which involved a lot of fendering and shouting.

Along the Algarve, Lagos has the biggest community, but it's rather Brit centered and you won't feel like you're in Portugal. Vilamoura was weird and creepy (there's a friggin Kiss FM radio station - no, not in Portoguese). Albufeira cozy but only a handful of liveaboards (we enjoyed wintering there). Portimao was okay but it's a bit of a walk into town.

Almerimar is another popular cruiser starting point. You'll find lots of help there and liveaboard needs are well catered for. The 6 month in Spain thing doesn't seem to apply here in actual fact. And plenty of places in Greece. It mostly depends on where your boat is/can go.

 

[wolffie]

ah, interesting... appreciate it.

thank you for this info.

 

[RAI]

thanks RAI for the feedback on VRSA (town and its current!!).

-for VRSA: i do not mind small, quiet places. being in lockdown as much as i have, socialising again may actually involve a steep learning curve!

-remember Lagos being very much the young-crowd's party place long ago, but it was lovely! i hear that marina fees are much higher there, as well.

-spain, for me would need to be limited to under 6 mos. at a time, or else i could be considered a "resident" and pay on my income there too (not to mention value of the boat).

-i do not know the ins and outs of these rules for portugal yet, but from what i understand, one isn't financially penalised if one becomes a resident. for the first year or so, i just want to be able to practice, get my bearings, become more confident. the learning curve is steep

will check out the other threads here, as suggested.

thank you for your helpful reply!

If you are a EU citizen Wolffie, then you can go anywhere in the EU and stay. If you want to work there, it's slightly more complicated.
I suggest you try out all the Atlantic coast marinas from Lagos to Gibraltar. Everyone has their own preferences. No need to rush things. A lot of marina Liveaboards in that region stay in the marinas for up to 9 months, when it's cheaper and stay at anchor during the expensive summer months in places like Culatra in Rio Formosa - Faro - or up the river Guadiana.

 

[Graham376]

Why can you not get residência now ?

My wife phoned for a friend yesterday and got him through to SEF residence line. Virtually first question they asked was "can you prove you were in the country on or before 31/12". Fortunately, he has marina receipt.

P.S. Good to meet you this morning Jim, thanks for visiting.

 

[Sailfree]

If Canadians, US, Brazilians and South Africans can move to Portugal in the past few years I cant see why a Brit post Brexit can't. As an EU Citizen you have the right to go anywhere but you should still register where you are living. My understanding is that Belgium is strict in requiring registration at 4 month and will deport you if you cannot demonstrate that you can support yourself.

Most countries are happy to accept people that can contribute to the economy but not if they are potentially a burden on the economy.

Hence if financially independant and have health insurance or country has reciprocal health care arrangements is OK.

My experience is that Portugal has granted residency for such people. You need to also get a Financas registration and do an annual tax return. Not sure of current rules for others but for retired EU citizen they have a low tax rate for pensioners for 1st 10yrs to help you settle.

Many countries have a reciprocal tax arrangement with Portugal. If you pay tax in one country you don't pay in the other. I advise specialist advice as my experience is pre Brexit. Many UK pensions are taxed at source in UK and that cant be changed.

As a visitor its 90 days. I think its unreasonable to expect to live in any country without becoming part of their tax system.

Prior to Brexit many seemed to reside but live below the radar in many EU countries. I expect this to be more difficult in future.

If you arrive as a visitor I'm sure you will find a number who can advise.

Before we moved to Portugal in 2016 I made contact with a number of people who post on here (try Scuttlebutt as well).

We hired a car and toured Portugal from Lisbon up to Porto then down to the Algarve then back up to Nazare meeting a number of ybw posters. All were welcoming and helpful. We took about 20 days.

Obviously be nicer to do it by boat and take 90 days.

We bought in Portugal first then sailed the boat down 2yrs later. Marina staff nearly everywhere speak English as do most visiting sailors. In Nazare we have a fair number of Swedes staying for a while but only a few live here permanently. I think liveaboard is never official but most allow it. We have been having a new house built and have lived on the boat for last 15 months as needed to sell apartment to get money to build new house.

Been no problem living on boat.

In travelling around I got the impression there were more Brits in the Algarve and the marinas there. However outside of the marinas you will find British expat communities everywhere.

 

[Star-Lord]

Villa Real is amazing! But the view from Ayamonte of Villa Real is even more amazing! Ferry to Vill Real very nice. Access to Guadiana and bay of Faro excellent. Lagos town amazing but dislike the marina intensely - not the people just the surrounding atmosphere of bad restaurants and little england vibe catering to the English!! Sopromar boatyard for on the hard and works very nice. People still don't get Portimao thankfully! A hint... you take the dinghy into town up river and to Feragudo across the river and to the boatyards and chandlery halfway down the river. And you can take the dinghy all the way up river! So you are boating every day! And if your dinghy has a sail you can sail in the bay. I spent a couple of years in Algarve and a couple of years in Lisbon with summers in Galicia - Galicia in summer and winter Algarve is what I would be doing if not for Brexit or even better: Lisbon - Azores - Galicia forever. BTW Galicia boatyards very good if you know which ones.

 

[wolffie]

thanks guys, for all the input.
am taking notes here...
really looking forward to when i can get down there (not a given at the moment) and check it out for myself..
and yes, i've got the EU sticker, so, for the moment, it is not all that difficult to set up camp elsewhere.
full time or 6/12 is not clear yet to me yet either.
in any case, am thankful for having choice.
wolffie

 

[nortada]

hello everyone, first time poster. not a boat owner yet.

Hi Wolffie,

Welcome to the forum.

Lots of very good people in here with loads of information.

Like Google, it is important to ask the right question - not always the easiest thing to do.

See you have yet to get a boat so do you plan to buy in the UK and sail one out or get one out here, which, if you are not an experienced sailor, could be a much easier option

 

[wolffie]

hello nortada,

yes, folks have been extremely helpful already. much appreciated!

and yes, one question can surely be embedded with a complicated mix of potential options or decisions to be made, so, asking the right question isn't simple.

and i do ask about portugal here as it would be, as you call it, the easier option, as perhaps a good spot to get my bearings.

 

[Star-Lord]

The Irish prefer Galicia. Galicia has better sailing and restaurants and boatyards. And better anchorages. Most people heading for the Algarve miss it. Do not follow the crowd! The Algarve really is very boring. But nice for winter or boatyards (Portimao and Sopromar).

 

[[3889]]

The Irish prefer Galicia. Galicia has better sailing and restaurants and boatyards. And better anchorages. Most people heading for the Algarve miss it. Do not follow the crowd! The Algarve really is very boring. But nice for winter or boatyards (Portimao and Sopromar).

All true but the winter weather is no match for the Algarve.

 

[nortada]

The Irish prefer Galicia. Galicia has better sailing and restaurants and boatyards. And better anchorages. Most people heading for the Algarve miss it. Do not follow the crowd! The Algarve really is very boring. But nice for winter or boatyards (Portimao and Sopromar).

Sailed the whole coast of Galicia and really enjoyed it but the weather is not a patch on The Algarve, nor are the people.

 

[Graham376]

Sailed the whole coast of Galicia and really enjoyed it but the weather is not a patch on The Algarve, nor are the people.

We found the people friendly, language is more akin to Portuguese than Spanish.