Fire Extinguishers

[6Fairwater]

On 1st Jan new regulations came into force regarding fire extinguishing equipment. I have a Fairline (diesel-powered) 38 fitted with Halon Gas extinguishers in the engine room. These are not now permitted and therefore need to be replaced with new approved extinguishant. I understand that FM-200 Marine Fire Protection marketed by "Sea-Fire" is the answer although I'm having a hell of a job finding anyone in that Company or anywhere else to tell me what I really need. Fire Extinguishers, yes, but what size? In calculating engine room space, surely the space taken up by the fuel tanks and the engines themselves need to be excluded? But I'm told not. And do I really have to install all the other equipment I'm told I have to have to go with this, such as engine cut-offs, warning lights, alarm bells etc?
Talking to people in the trade supposedly in the know, I get the impession that they either don't really know their facts or that they're trying to sell me more than I actually need. The total upgrading cost quoted by one trader recently was almost £1,000!!
My Insurers can't or won't help either; they merely say that the onus is on me to install 'appropriate and adequate' fire protection!
Given the seriousness of this subject, I find it remarkable that there should be so much ignorance and lack of information.
Have there been any articles published on this subject in any of the Boating media?
Failing this, can anyone help, please?

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[Trevor_swfyc]

Why do you have to replace your Halon system? I know its illegal to fit Halon now but do you have to remove one that was pre fitted before the new regulations.
In any case the Halon will one day end up in the environment, so in the mean time the safest place for you and the environment is on your boat in the cylinder.

This is only my view!

Trevor





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[sailorman]

bet the Yanks still use them

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[malcp]

It would appear the old Halon ones do have to be decommissioned.
See the following link:-
http://www.dti.gov.uk/access/decom.pdf
I am in a similar situation. These gas replacements are not cheap. Firemaster, the manufacturer of mine have a "deal" where they will swap the Halon ones for new non-Halon ones. Solves the problem of disposing of the old Halon units if nothing else.

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[ianabc]

I have been researching fire suppression as I need to know all I can about the subject to ensure that our 37 foot steel sailboat is adequatly protected.
This is what I found......
FM 200 is safe for use in habitable areas
FE 241 is for use in confined spaces and the space may not be entered formany hours after use of the agent.

I have the feeling that there is a difference in price dollars for pounds, would you believe in gthe UK compared to USA prices.

Fyrewatch is one of 2 suppliers and this site gives information about safety of the agent. Note the use of manufacturing labels for the agent compared to the end user terms, FM 241 and FM 200....
http://www.newfire.co.in/fm.htm

Here is a list of specifications of FE 241 (for enclosed spaces and inexpensive compared to FM 200 for use in occupied spaces...[http://firedot.com/mall/kidde_equipment.htm

Now prices!
On ebay I purchased automatic FM 200 (new) for 275 cu feet for $ 200 US per unit plus shipping.
Also the smaller automatic unit FM 200 (new) for 150 cu feet for $75. US per unit plus shipping.
These are still available ....search for Fyrewatch on ebay.com

I have of course no connection with any of these sites or enterprises.

Also note that Kidde is no longer distributing units of either type as gthey intend to concentrate on the larger units and intend to have another carry on the business for smaller units...... " Kidde-Fenwal do, and will continue to, offer FM-200 in our marine suppression systems that protect vessels with machinery spaces from 128
cubic feet to 2,300,000 cubic feet in volume. "

Further to fire safety...I notice that on this forum and in certain magazines, mylar covered bubble wrap and styrofoam have been suggested as insulation! They burn like the devil and produce toxins.

A new fire extinguisher has been marketed in the last year, previously used in the aircraft industry, aqueous foam. This is non toxic, unlike the dry powder available everywhere, and the new aqueous foam is inexpensive. In Walmart in USA they are under $60.00 But these are manual. Good to use if you can, before the automatic that cost much more!

Back to boat building.....

Ian in BC


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[sailorman]

SO WE CANT BUT THE MILITARY CAN
WELL THEY WONT GET MINE

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[ccscott49]

If you dont want your old automatic halon ones, I`ll have them! They are still the best and I would still use one in extremis!

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[ccscott49]

If you dont want your old automatic halon ones, I`ll have them! They are still the best and I would still use one in extremis! Plus I dont give a stuff what the government says, I`m keeping mine!

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[sailorman]

as they say in parliment, HERE, HERE

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[Plum]

Halon replacement for GBP80

Thought you might be interested in a response I got from Firemaster who do not appear to be trying to rip anyone off.........

"Dear Sir,

The closest replacement is a similar automatic to your Halon product but using FE36 gas. This is similar to Halon but without the ozone depleting problems.

The size you require will depend on the Cubic value of your engine space:-

1kg protects up to 1.7m3 ... ... £ 78.65
1.5kg protects up to 2.5m3 ... ... £109.05

I suggest that one of these two sizes will suit. Special replacement prices include VAT, carriage and safe disposal of your halon at a Government recognised disposal establishment. You would have to return your halon unit at your expense.

Payment by cheque or Credit Card over the phone (Tel: 020 8852 8585)."

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[6Fairwater]

I'm afraid that if you haven't replaced Halon and you have a subsequent fire on your boat, your Insurers won't pay out!!


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[6Fairwater]

Re: Halon replacement for GBP80

Thank you very much for your constructive reply.
I will speak to them.

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[6Fairwater]

Thank you very much for your helpful reply.

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[Guest]

Local port Fire station

The fire station designated with responsibility for port matters near your boat will be able to help surely - talking to teh Fire Prevention Officer / PR should go some way to an answer ....

<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.qqbaltic.com/index.html>http://www.qqbaltic.com/index.html</A> For all those disbelievers ! /forums/images/icons/cool.gif

 

[6Fairwater]

Re: Halon replacement for GBP80

Thanks very much for your useful reply. I'll get in touch with Firemaster!

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[Piers]

Call Fireguard on 01425 616 139.

A mine of accurate info, and very reasonable charges.

<hr width=100% size=1>Piers du Pré
http://www.dupre.co.uk

 

[Lawrence]

I obtained helpful advice and the goods for a Sea Fire FM200 replacement for two smaller halon units from Richard Duckworth at Blue Marble Solutions. Website is www.bluemarblesolutions.co.uk/contact.htm They are based in Bristol but delivery was trouble-free and they collected the old halons from our marina office as part of the deal.

There are a number of retail outlets selling keenly priced FM200 units suitable for a straight swap into a small or medium sized yacht engine compartment. (My last yacht would have been no problem to sort but we have hung up our sail ties and moved to power. A "Baby-Boomer" phenomenon it would seem as we know a number of contempories doing the same). Power cruisers have caverns by comparison and I was shocked to see the prices that I was into to obtain an appropriately sized unit.

I have a Storebro 340. The only space I deducted was for that occupied by the diesel tanks. I treated the engine compartment as a rectangle, which of course it isn't, I ignored the potential deduction for the space taken by the holding tank and the calorifier and also allowed another 15-20%-ish so hopefully there is plenty of allowance for errror. I am told that the allowance recommended by the manufacturers allows margin for error so together with my own "allowance", one hopes that there is plenty of retardent available if the worst should happen. Not exactly rocket science which is why I leaned towards overdoing it. I hope I never have to write and say whether it all worked!

It occurred to me that the previous set-up might not have done the job if called upon as the two small extinguishers were not set up for simultaneuous discharge. If one splits down to smaller units, it is necessary to avoid the first extinguisher not quite doing the job followed by the second possibly doing the same. There but for the grace of God etc.!

I have fitted two discharge alarms: one in the deck saloon and the other on the flybridge but I did not go to the considerable expense of an auto-shutdown for the engines, which is why I thought it best to double up on the alarms, as if there is a fire, one obviously wants to shut down as quickly as possible, firstly to minimise the risk of the fire continuing and also to stop the engines sucking in the retardent and chucking it out of the exhaust.

I agree with those who reckon that halon did an excellent job but if one can avoid it, why deliberately break the law? I also think it's a bum deal that the Navy have an extra 2 years or so before they have to comply!

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[Nick2]

Re: Halon replacement for GBP80

My twin diesel engined Fairline presently has 2 x Halons which I wish to replace asap. Am I better off going for twin FM200 units or one larger one ? I calculate that the volume of engine bay is 3.8 m3 .

My fear would be that only one may go off in the event of a fire and that one might not be large enough to do the required job?

Confused of Hythe

Nick

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[ccscott49]

Re: Halon replacement for GBP80

I`d go for two, of sufficient size, for one to fill the compartment, which is what I have now.

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[Nick2]

Re: Halon replacement for GBP80

Thanks Colin

Just to clarify are you suggesting that I get 2 with each having the capacity to fill the engine bay on its own?

If thats the case then I suppose each one will do the job alone and if they both happen to go off then I doubt that it would be top of my worries list at the time....

Nick

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