chuzzlewit
Member
An AFFF foam extinguisher : what size is recommended for a 35' sailing boat?
Fire extinguisher
- Thread starter chuzzlewit
- Start date
andyball
New member
I'd fit the biggest you can - They are soo cheap from non-marine sources, if you hunt around. Think I have a 6ltr afff, a six litr powder, a co2 one and umm maybe it's another foam one too. on a 36', but space to spare. also a fireblanket & a tiddly pan-fire type extinguisher. The requirements for coding, as an example... are hopelessly low imo.
http://www.valuefireextinguishers.co.uk/shop/
http://www.cheapfireextinguishers.co.uk/
http://www.valuefireextinguishers.co.uk/shop/
http://www.cheapfireextinguishers.co.uk/
Micky
New member
I agree with Andyball.
Fit the best and biggest. I have 8 on my boat, mixture of manual and automatic + fire blankets.
Far better to be safe then sorry.
Fit the best and biggest. I have 8 on my boat, mixture of manual and automatic + fire blankets.
Far better to be safe then sorry.
oldharry
Well-known member
<<I'd fit the biggest you can - They are soo cheap from non-marine sources, if you hunt around. >>
There is a case for fitting several small ones rather than one large one. If there is a fire you are on your own, and if you have one big extinguisher a) you may not be able to reach it b) if it isnt working properly.... c) some of the cheap ones dont fire for as long as the better ones. d) if you are hurt as well (e.g. after an explosion) could you still pick it up and work it? e) Could you handle it properly in a rough sea?
I asked our works Fire Officer (also a sailing man) - his recommendation was that 4 or more 2 kg extinguishers would give a far better chance of success than having 2 x 6kg extinguishers aboard. Also two fire blankets - helpful to contain almost any small fire before it goes out of control.
There is a case for fitting several small ones rather than one large one. If there is a fire you are on your own, and if you have one big extinguisher a) you may not be able to reach it b) if it isnt working properly.... c) some of the cheap ones dont fire for as long as the better ones. d) if you are hurt as well (e.g. after an explosion) could you still pick it up and work it? e) Could you handle it properly in a rough sea?
I asked our works Fire Officer (also a sailing man) - his recommendation was that 4 or more 2 kg extinguishers would give a far better chance of success than having 2 x 6kg extinguishers aboard. Also two fire blankets - helpful to contain almost any small fire before it goes out of control.
Phoenix of Hamble
Active member
Funnily enough, I had exactly the same conversation with our Fire Officer, and he too said get a larger number of smaller extinguishers, but not to go too small, as the small ones don't have enough 'load' to make a serious impact on a small fire...
For that reason we too have 4 x 2Kg powders on board, plus 2 fireblankets...
One thought... do you also have an extinguisher in a cockpit locker?
What would be your plans if you were all on deck and spotted a fire below (a likely situation IMHO)?..... so we also have one 1.5Kg extinguisher in a locker....hopefully enough to allow us to safely reach one or more of the larger extinguishers below...
For that reason we too have 4 x 2Kg powders on board, plus 2 fireblankets...
One thought... do you also have an extinguisher in a cockpit locker?
What would be your plans if you were all on deck and spotted a fire below (a likely situation IMHO)?..... so we also have one 1.5Kg extinguisher in a locker....hopefully enough to allow us to safely reach one or more of the larger extinguishers below...
ccscott49
Active member
Why the hell do you want AFFF on a boat?? Dry powder is far better for a boat, plus Halon replacement type for the engine compartment, plus a fire blanket.
A lot of small ones is not the answer, you need enough continuous extiguishant to put the fire out, not have to get another extiguisher and allow the fire to heat up again and get worse. Have as many extiguishers as you have compartments on the boat, plus 1 at least, make them at least 2kg or larger dry powder. IMHO.
A lot of small ones is not the answer, you need enough continuous extiguishant to put the fire out, not have to get another extiguisher and allow the fire to heat up again and get worse. Have as many extiguishers as you have compartments on the boat, plus 1 at least, make them at least 2kg or larger dry powder. IMHO.
TeamSpirit
Member
Agree with multi fitting extinguishers - we have x2 2kg powders, x2 fire blankets, x2 Co2's x2 autos in engine room.
I was considering a small foam or water to add to the one to hand in cockpit locker. Hope never to use them in anger but better to have sufficient equipment and be able to tackle a blaze than run out whilst fighting a blaze.
I guess i have learnt from my experience when my car caught fire some years ago when I would've saved the car had it not been for my powder extinguisher running out.
I was considering a small foam or water to add to the one to hand in cockpit locker. Hope never to use them in anger but better to have sufficient equipment and be able to tackle a blaze than run out whilst fighting a blaze.
I guess i have learnt from my experience when my car caught fire some years ago when I would've saved the car had it not been for my powder extinguisher running out.
bendyone
Well-known member
We have one the the back cabin, one + blanket by the cooker, one by the chart table and another in the outside locker. all in a 26 foot boat. 2kg each.
ccscott49
Active member
OK, I still will not have foam aboard, not needed. I have 3 x engineroom autos 3kg each Halon (replacement) a 2 kg powder in each cabin, total 6.
3 x kg powder, fire blanket, 2 kg x halon (replacement) in galley. Plus and extra 3kg powder in the wheelhouse. Plus an emergency fire pump, electric with own power supply and hose. Do I have to mention the boat was coded. This is for a 57' wooden boat. Fire is the one thing I really fear at sea, that and floating containers and...............
3 x kg powder, fire blanket, 2 kg x halon (replacement) in galley. Plus and extra 3kg powder in the wheelhouse. Plus an emergency fire pump, electric with own power supply and hose. Do I have to mention the boat was coded. This is for a 57' wooden boat. Fire is the one thing I really fear at sea, that and floating containers and...............
chrishelen
N/A
what about the oggin?
oldharry
Well-known member
[ QUOTE ]
Why the hell do you want AFFF on a boat?? Dry powder is far better for a boat, plus Halon replacement type for the engine compartment, plus a fire blanket.
A lot of small ones is not the answer, you need enough continuous extiguishant to put the fire out, not have to get another extiguisher make them at least 2kg or larger dry powder. IMHO.
[/ QUOTE ]
You have a point, but its not what experienced fire officers are saying, except that 2kg is the minimum practical size.
Have you ever seen a Dry Powder discharged? It makes a huge cloud of dust. This has various disadvantages: - 1. You can not see where the fire is any more, so you can not tell whether it is out. 2. It writes off anything that is not already damaged but the fire. 3. Its vile stuff to inhale apparently, so you cannot approach the fire source until the dust settles without breathing gear (you carry that aboard of course /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif ) 4. If it is ingested by a running engine (and it will be if you discharge one on the boat) it makes a pretty fair mess of the internals needing a full strip down and clean, if it doesnt total the engine altogether.
Strongish arguments in favour of AFFF , CO2 (which will asphyxiate you more effectively than the dry powder, below!) or toxic Halon substitutes, dont you think? Dry powder is no more or less effective than the alternatives as an extinguishant, I am told, but is one of the messiest in the aftermath if you succeed in extinguishing the fire!
Why the hell do you want AFFF on a boat?? Dry powder is far better for a boat, plus Halon replacement type for the engine compartment, plus a fire blanket.
A lot of small ones is not the answer, you need enough continuous extiguishant to put the fire out, not have to get another extiguisher make them at least 2kg or larger dry powder. IMHO.
[/ QUOTE ]
You have a point, but its not what experienced fire officers are saying, except that 2kg is the minimum practical size.
Have you ever seen a Dry Powder discharged? It makes a huge cloud of dust. This has various disadvantages: - 1. You can not see where the fire is any more, so you can not tell whether it is out. 2. It writes off anything that is not already damaged but the fire. 3. Its vile stuff to inhale apparently, so you cannot approach the fire source until the dust settles without breathing gear (you carry that aboard of course /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif ) 4. If it is ingested by a running engine (and it will be if you discharge one on the boat) it makes a pretty fair mess of the internals needing a full strip down and clean, if it doesnt total the engine altogether.
Strongish arguments in favour of AFFF , CO2 (which will asphyxiate you more effectively than the dry powder, below!) or toxic Halon substitutes, dont you think? Dry powder is no more or less effective than the alternatives as an extinguishant, I am told, but is one of the messiest in the aftermath if you succeed in extinguishing the fire!
chrishelen
N/A
Harry your right,you only need to do a basic firefighting course to see the the pros and cons of fire extingisers, some can do more damage than the SMALL fire you are trying to put out,and i speak from experience.
andyball
New member
i think if you look at the A & B numbers for the same sized ones... you'll see that dry powder is considerably higher-rated. And also suitable for class C fires.
I fancied the less damaging foam and/or CO2 when appropriate... and have a whopping powder one outside, in an aft-deck locker for when things get hairy.
Can't say I've any probs thinking about man-handling the larger ones in an emergency - they're not that heavy.
Fire types
as an example... a 9 litre foam may be 21A 183B, and a same-size powder 43A 233B and C also.
A 5Kg co2, might be just 55B
On the other hand, you get a longer discharge time with foam, for the same size.
Not the cheapest... but handy to compare ratings, weights & discharge times.
I fancied the less damaging foam and/or CO2 when appropriate... and have a whopping powder one outside, in an aft-deck locker for when things get hairy.
Can't say I've any probs thinking about man-handling the larger ones in an emergency - they're not that heavy.
Fire types
as an example... a 9 litre foam may be 21A 183B, and a same-size powder 43A 233B and C also.
A 5Kg co2, might be just 55B
On the other hand, you get a longer discharge time with foam, for the same size.
Not the cheapest... but handy to compare ratings, weights & discharge times.
ccscott49
Active member
Thats what I said, "emergency electric powered pump with it's own supply and hose!"
ccscott49
Active member
Foam isnt messy?? Have you used the stuff in anger? Have you seen what it does, do you know what AFFF is? Aqueos film forming foam? You seen the film it leaves on everything? Remeber the original foam was made from blood, it stank, so does AFFF.
I think you should go and do a fire course before you say anything more, then I may listen to your argumments.
I would not use powder in an engine space.
By the way we do have smoke hoods on my boat, which are just as efficient as breathing gear for powder.
I have used dry powder a number of times, I do a fire course every year, a Dutch requirement for working on drilling rigs. I have used AFFF also Halon (for want of a better word) Dry powder is without doubt a very good extinguishant. We use or rather have it available in many areas on the rig, CO2 in areas also.
Enclosed spaces have Halon dump, but you need to be out of there. CO2 was and has been replaced in most engine spaces.
By the way, the main part of practice dry powder, is bicarbonate of soda. Almost as efficient as the real powder, which is mainly the same stuff.
I think you should go and do a fire course before you say anything more, then I may listen to your argumments.
I would not use powder in an engine space.
By the way we do have smoke hoods on my boat, which are just as efficient as breathing gear for powder.
I have used dry powder a number of times, I do a fire course every year, a Dutch requirement for working on drilling rigs. I have used AFFF also Halon (for want of a better word) Dry powder is without doubt a very good extinguishant. We use or rather have it available in many areas on the rig, CO2 in areas also.
Enclosed spaces have Halon dump, but you need to be out of there. CO2 was and has been replaced in most engine spaces.
By the way, the main part of practice dry powder, is bicarbonate of soda. Almost as efficient as the real powder, which is mainly the same stuff.
chuzzlewit
Member
Thanks everybody. I have two dry powder extinguishers but was told they would damage the engine.
chuzzlewit
Member
You obviously feel foam is bad news : any particular reason?
oldharry
Well-known member
I have to do regular fire fighting training as part of my job, so yes I have seen (and smelt) the results. IMHO foam is the lesser evil as powder goes literally everywhere. Foam stays roughly where you put it, and you can see whats going on. The blast from a CO2 discharge can actually spread the fire.
And powder WILL get into a running engine if it gets anywhere near any opening in to the engine space.
Not sure what happens to the engine if foam gets ingested. Evil smelling exhaust? /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
And powder WILL get into a running engine if it gets anywhere near any opening in to the engine space.
Not sure what happens to the engine if foam gets ingested. Evil smelling exhaust? /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
chrishelen
N/A
I think we used halon in the engine room of pusser warships,trouble was it killed the fire and everybody in the engine room,i think it eliminated the oxygen thus removing one of the elements to cause a fire,its outlawed now by the way.going back to small boats i dont think i would worry what type of extinguisher was handy if i was going to get my a.. burnt off.
oldharry
Well-known member
Halon when heated produces something very very toxic as a by product, so although it killed the fire very effectively, it would kill anyone nearby equally efficiently. I think it was banned not only on H&S grounds, but because it is a potent destroyer of the ozone layer.