Fire extinguisers

[WayneS]

I am about to replace the fire extinguishers on my boat as the current setup it old and not up to scratch.

I intend to fit 2 x 2kg Powers extinguishers and a fire blanket. (boat is 29ft sailing vessel used for cruising, with diesel inboard)

Can anyone please advise if this to adequate.

Thanks

Wayne

 

[philip_stevens]

I also have a 29ft'er, and can only refer to the SCV2 for chartered boats.

Vessel under 15m and carrying under 15 persons.
Frer pump or Extinguisher to BS5423 capacity 13A/144B
plus
Fixed fire extinguisher system in the engine space or Portable fire extinguisher arranged to disgharge into the engine space
plus
Extinguisher to BS5423 capacity 8A/34B plus 8A/55B (one at each exit)
plus
2 Fire buckets
plus
Fire blanket in galley (BS6575 light duty)

This is from my YBDSA SCV2 Compliance Document.
This is for charter work.

regards,
Philip

 

[gus]

There is the 'standards' and there is what you feel comfortable about in terms of fire fighting ability. Avoidance tactics are your first requisite as most fires are due to poor maintenance, poor standards in fitting of potential hazards, and downright carelessness. However having said that, in the event of a fire the quicker you can attack it, the more chance you have of extinguishing it. Dry powder extinguishers may be excellent but the thought of the mess they make would always make me hesitant. Just imaging the mess that two kilos of powder would make of the inside of your boat. For that reason I have two big Co2 extinguishers ready to hand for first use. From personal experience I have found that a fire attacked without any delay, can be snuffed out easily with no mess and that goes for all flamable materials.
But in many ways it is a matter of personal choice beyond what the standards dictate but I sometimes wonder if the creators of the standards ever set foot in a boat or have they ever seen inside a closed space after the discharge of a dry powder extinguisher. On your boat you may certainly get the fire out - but at what price - the destruction of every other surface and fabric within the boat.

 

[Trevor_swfyc]

Wayne,
I have the same on my 27 ft yacht again diesel. You are right to replace the set up as dry powder extinquishers do have a shelf life. I think the mess of dry powder is a point but if I had a fire would I be worrying about this. As for adequate imagine this you are filling an outboard on your transom, while your crew are inside and decide to boil the kettle. They turn the valve and the valve comes out and gas alight is now in a jet across the cabin you in a panic drop the petrol can in the cockpit. So what would be adequate !
Not an easy call is it.
Your insurance company may have a minimum requirement for cover to be valid.
Shame we cannot use halon on a boat.
In the end you can only protect as best you can. The tender or inflattable could in the end be a life saver.
Trevor

 

[vyv_cox]

In the circumstances you describe, which is an interesting one, certain points can be made from experience.

Firstly, fighting an outside fire with CO2 is very difficult indeed. Our first demonstration in firefighting practice is always to use a CO2 extinguisher on a small oil fire. Unless you get the nozzle very close to the flames it will not put it out. Many people are reluctant to go close enough and exhaust a complete extinguisher without having the slightest effect. With petrol fires the likelihood of getting close is low because of the heat level. If the wind is blowing it gets worse. So forget CO2.

Your point about the mess is a good one - the mess from the fire will be much worse than that from the powder. However, in a hot fire, like petrol, powder extinguishers are less effective because the fire will reignite. The effectiveness of the powder is soon exhausted and then you are lost. Powder settles into a solid lump quite quickly on a boat, so every couple of months give the extinguisher a good inverted shake.

Foam, unlike powder, reacts with the combustible and makes it non-flammable. When an oil fire has been lit and extinguished in a tray a couple of times, during fire practice, it just will not relight again. If I was buying new now I would definitely buy foam rather than powder.

Halon also reacts with the fire and is so much better than anything else that I will not dispose of mine until somebody physically takes them away from me. I have three 1.5 kg, plus a 2kg powder that is really just for show. Monitor the weight of the extinguisher: if it remains at the same weight it is still OK.

Best of all - review everything that might cause a fire quite frequently. Prevention is a great deal better than cure.

 

[Juggler7823]

I agree with Vyv, foam is the best for use on boats. One point though, either buy one which is frost inhibited or take home during the winter.

Roy

 

[Chris_Stannard]

Lots of good advice, but some extra points. Too high a concentration of CO2 in an enclosed area, such as a cabin, can act as a suffecant, pardon the spelling but it means you cannot breath.
CO2 is really intended for high voltage electrical fires, but I would think could be used to put an engine fire out.
Foam is water based and is fine for fighting a fire with a flat surface, such as blazing oil in the bilge if you can get to it. The idea then is to hit the bulkhead behind the fire so that the foam spreads down and out over the surface. It is not much good if you have a vertical fire such as curtains over the galley.
Powder is a good general purpose solution, though messy, if you have a fire who cares.
Next decide what you strategy is if the boat goes on fire. Are you going to try to save the boat or are you just trying to escape. Remember fibre glass burns when it gets hot enough. If people need to get out will they need an extinguisher to allow them to do so. For example if you have an after cabin do the occupants have to come past the engine and galley to get out. If you have an engine fire do you want an automatic extinguisher in the engine bay. Incidentally do you have an emergency remote fuel cock to prevent further fuel going into the engine bay.
My view is that you need at least three extinguishers, forrad, saloon and after cabin, plus a spare in the cockpit, plus an automatic in the engine bay.
A last thought, in Cowes the same extinguishers are half the chanderlery price in an iron mongers called Hursts. Obvious thought, check alternative suppliers, perhaps Halfords and the iironmongers before you buy. You may get four for the price of two.
Good sailing

 

[LadyInBed]

Re: 2 Fire buckets

What are they filled with? Sand Water or Hot coles!

 

[LadyInBed]

Nobody has mentioned Water

Reading through the posts the thought struck me that apart from all the ‘standard’ remedies, with a pressurised water system, a hose and nozzle should have its place (apart from for showering). If its good enough for the Fire Brigade, etc.
What are the panels views?

 

[Trevor_swfyc]

FIRE EXIT

This has made me realise that the front hatch must be considered a fire escape, how many times have you seen this hatch covered by an inflatable. I have been guilty of this on summer cruises always consider what if.
Having burnt an old fibreglass tender on 5th November, once the fire got going it was obvious that a serious petrol fire on a boat would soon result in an abandon ship situation it sent a chill through me just to watch it.
The gas situation that I referred to actually happened to a fellow club member he put the fire out by turning off the gas as he was in the cockpit when it happened.
No good trying to put out a gas fire before you turn off the gas supply?.

Stay Safe!
Trevor

 

[vyv_cox]

Re: Nobody has mentioned Water

Water definitely has its place as a coolant and extinguisher of "general" fires, whatever they are. It won't do a lot for petrol and diesel fires and is positively dangerous on hot oil. I prefer not to rely on any electrical or mechanical devices for firefighting, which rules out pumps, leaving only buckets. Getting one out of the locker, usually beneath four or five fenders, getting the water from over the side, uses time that would be much better spent firing the extinguisher. It's a good idea to cool the fire down with water after using a powder extinguisher to prevent reignition. Even more mess!

 

[bedouin]

Re: Nobody has mentioned Water

I remember one expert recommending that a very fine spray can be very effective on any fire - even those where direct application of water is dangerous (e.g. fat). I've no experience of this though.

 

[vyv_cox]

Re: Nobody has mentioned Water

There has been a lot of research and discussion on the substitution of Halon in aircraft by fine water sprays. This doesn't seem to have been very successful and aircraft is currently one of the exception Halon users. Most interest seems to be centred on argon/nitrogen mixtures but these only work by smothering, not reacting with the fire.

 

[philip_stevens]

Re: 2 Fire buckets

One for each hand, I think.

Possibly CO2 as it is heavier than air.

On a previous post in this thread; the MN containerships I had served on for 25 years (and probably other MN ships) had two massive refrigerated flasks of CO2 for engine room fire fighting "flooding". Some of the ships had batteries of CO2 pressurised bottles for the same purpose. Halon was used for purifier room "flooding". So what is used in place of Halon now that it is banned??

As another has said, I also have Halon for my engine room automatic extinguishers, and they will stay until I am forced by legislation to remove them - or until there is a replacement for the purpose.

regards,
Philip

 

[philip_stevens]

Re: Nobody has mentioned Water

When I was in the FAA of the RN in the 60's, and served onboard aircraft carriers, the method of fighting fire in the aircraft hanger was with pressurised water mist. If it was ever set off, and you were in the hanger, it was said that it would suffocate you.

Fishing boats in the 70's - my fathers - had a system of pressurised water mist fire fighting for the engine room. It was either motor pump or rotary hand pump operated.

regards,
Philip

 

[peterb]

Re: Nobody has mentioned Water

Water is one of the best extinguishants in existence. It has the highest specific heat of all materials (which means that it absorbs a lot of heat while being warmed up), it has a high latent heat (which means that it absorbs even more in boiling) and when it boils it produces a vapour (steam) which for most purposes is non-reactive. And the water that misses the fire wets the surrounding fuel, making it difficult for the fire to spread. So in terms of the so-called fire triangle, water will remove heat, dilute the oxygen, and remove the fuel. Superb!

The most important thing is to catch the fire early. If you have to dive into a locker, find a bucket, tie on a lanyard then fish for a bucket of water, you'll be too late. You need to be able to direct a pint of water at the fire now, rather than two gallons in a couple of minutes time.

When you've finished a bottle of washing-up liquid, don't just throw it away. Refill it with water, mark it 'For use on fires' and leave it in the cabin. After a time you'll have a number of them (and all for nothing), and there will always be one within reach. See a fire start, grab the bottle, uncap it and squirt. You'll be surprised at how effective it is.

You can use water on electrical fires at boat voltages with no problems. But don't use it on radar sets or CRT displays which use high voltages. Above all, don't use water on deep fat frying pans; but then I wouldn't use a pan like that on a boat anyway. Used on a normal pan of egg and bacon it might cause an initial flare, but that would subside quite quickly.

If you are using other types of extinguisher, then remember that most of them use a propellant gas to push out the extinguishant. In general the gas is above the extinguishant, and the extinguishant comes out through a dip tube. If you hold the extinguisher wrongly (such as upside-down) to get into awkward places, then you may discharge the propellant but leave the extinguishant behind.

And finally, remember that the middle of an unlit cabin at night is not the best time or place to learn how to use your extnguishers. Get familiar with their operation so that you can use them in the dark, without having to hunt for a torch first!

 

[philip_stevens]

Re: Nobody has mentioned Water

Does anyone have any knowledge of AFFF fire extinguishers, and if they would be suitable for engine room automatic fire extinguishers.



regards,
Philip