claymore
Well-known member
I'm sorry if this has been covered already but do the solas regs stipulate that we have to have a radar reflector?
regards
Claymore
regards
Claymore
Firdell Blipper
- Thread starter claymore
- Start date
BrendanS
Well-known member
over 15m reflector has to have one fitted
under 15m should have one fitted 'where practicable'
under 15m should have one fitted 'where practicable'
claymore
Well-known member
Thanks for that
regards
Claymore
regards
Claymore
bedouin
Well-known member
BUT the MCAs guidance notes makes it clear that they would expect it to be practical on all but the smallest boats - so you've pretty well got to fit one. (I'm moving from a 'hoist on demand' octohedral to a fixed reflector this winter).
jimi
Well-known member
I've got a spare firdnell which anyone can have for a nominal sum(£20) plus a pint. To be collected at Hythe, Soton! Send PM if interested
BrendanS
Well-known member
They got themselves in a hell of a mess over this. Regs give the square meterage required, which simply can't be put onto any normal small boat, largely cos the regs were aimed at commercial ships. While they got themselves out of mess, they put the 'where practicable' bit in. Gives people a chance to use a smaller reflector where 3million square acres of reflector isn't an option
IMHO
IMHO
bedouin
Well-known member
And if you believe the experts then none of the commonly fitted radar reflectors meet the 10m2 requirement.
ccscott49
Active member
There all crap anyway!
bedouin
Well-known member
True - but some are less crap than others
G
Guest
Guest
I think the Firdell is the best of the bunch followed by the old octahedral type. The ones that are really crap (IMHO) are those tube like thingys which look like there filled with ali and hang in the rigging.
BrendanS
Well-known member
...but in the stupid way things go, the cylindrical ones are those that small boats will fit as being 'practicable'
Can't think what would fit on mine, or where it would go, especially as most are essentially useless.
Has to be a good marketing niche here for someone who can design something that everyone agrees works, and can be fitted on everything from a yacht to a small motorboat (without radar arch or similar infrastucture to hang a reflector from)
Personally, I'd carry one of the octahedral types if I was out of home waters, and only put it up in fog, and even then I'd doubt its usefulness.
Can't think what would fit on mine, or where it would go, especially as most are essentially useless.
Has to be a good marketing niche here for someone who can design something that everyone agrees works, and can be fitted on everything from a yacht to a small motorboat (without radar arch or similar infrastucture to hang a reflector from)
Personally, I'd carry one of the octahedral types if I was out of home waters, and only put it up in fog, and even then I'd doubt its usefulness.
vyv_cox
Well-known member
Not Firdell Blipper
If you believe the information given at <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.echomax.co.uk/Echomax_Action.htm>http://www.echomax.co.uk/Echomax_Action.htm</A>, and I guess it must be independently assessed, then the Echomax is considerably better than the Firdell.
I fully agree about the effectiveness of the little tube reflectors but nevertheless that is what I use. My logic is that the chances of being seen by a ship's radar are small because:
a. Nobody is looking at the screen
b. My radar return is probably lost in the background wave clutter.
It follows, therefore, that it is our responsibility to keep out of their way, a responsibility that we both take very seriously. I carry the tubular reflector simply to satisfy the possible letter of the law, since long before the recent SOLAS instructions were announced.
If you believe the information given at <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.echomax.co.uk/Echomax_Action.htm>http://www.echomax.co.uk/Echomax_Action.htm</A>, and I guess it must be independently assessed, then the Echomax is considerably better than the Firdell.
I fully agree about the effectiveness of the little tube reflectors but nevertheless that is what I use. My logic is that the chances of being seen by a ship's radar are small because:
a. Nobody is looking at the screen
b. My radar return is probably lost in the background wave clutter.
It follows, therefore, that it is our responsibility to keep out of their way, a responsibility that we both take very seriously. I carry the tubular reflector simply to satisfy the possible letter of the law, since long before the recent SOLAS instructions were announced.
qsiv
New member
Re: Not Firdell Blipper
... and then consider the 40 knot ferries that NEVER slow down, even in fog, who rely 100% on radar, and become truly scared.
SET HOBBY HORSE ON
For some time I have noted that our local ferries are prone to arriving on scheduled even with 100 metre vis in the channel. The bridge is so far aft they cant SEE the surface of the sea closer than about 100 m from the bow. How they can be construed as complying with the 'safe speed' component of the ColRegs is beyond me, given that radar is only allowed as an aid to navigation.
SET HOBBY HORSE OFF
... and then consider the 40 knot ferries that NEVER slow down, even in fog, who rely 100% on radar, and become truly scared.
SET HOBBY HORSE ON
For some time I have noted that our local ferries are prone to arriving on scheduled even with 100 metre vis in the channel. The bridge is so far aft they cant SEE the surface of the sea closer than about 100 m from the bow. How they can be construed as complying with the 'safe speed' component of the ColRegs is beyond me, given that radar is only allowed as an aid to navigation.
SET HOBBY HORSE OFF
ccscott49
Active member
Re: Not Firdell Blipper
Same reason I have a radar reflector, solely to satisfy the MCA charter regulations, I know they are worthless, I've tested them with both big ship radars and smaller units, the echos are just lost, when the boat rolls even a little bit, in heavy weather, they disappear completely. I know buoys have radar reflectors and I've seen some on the radar, but I don't know if that was the buoy or the reflector, because I saw ones without reflectors on the radar, I suspect it was the buoy itself, but round objects have a habit of disappearing anyway, there was one time when my radar picked up a multitude of little fishing boats around eddystone lighthouse, but couldn't see the lighthouse with a 4kw 36 mile radar! (the tuning and gain were correct) because the ligjhthouse was round! I was told this by a radar expert. As as I'm cincerned, until somebody can positively prove to me, in actual conditions at sea, they work, I'll always be sceptical. all this IMHO of course.
Same reason I have a radar reflector, solely to satisfy the MCA charter regulations, I know they are worthless, I've tested them with both big ship radars and smaller units, the echos are just lost, when the boat rolls even a little bit, in heavy weather, they disappear completely. I know buoys have radar reflectors and I've seen some on the radar, but I don't know if that was the buoy or the reflector, because I saw ones without reflectors on the radar, I suspect it was the buoy itself, but round objects have a habit of disappearing anyway, there was one time when my radar picked up a multitude of little fishing boats around eddystone lighthouse, but couldn't see the lighthouse with a 4kw 36 mile radar! (the tuning and gain were correct) because the ligjhthouse was round! I was told this by a radar expert. As as I'm cincerned, until somebody can positively prove to me, in actual conditions at sea, they work, I'll always be sceptical. all this IMHO of course.
vyv_cox
Well-known member
Re: Not Firdell Blipper
Fully agree, but also see Colin's observations in the post following yours. I think that collision avoidance has to be active, not passive. Judging by the current huge interest in radar in the magazines and websites, plenty of others share my view.
Fully agree, but also see Colin's observations in the post following yours. I think that collision avoidance has to be active, not passive. Judging by the current huge interest in radar in the magazines and websites, plenty of others share my view.
bedouin
Well-known member
Re: Not Firdell Blipper
Part of the problem is that many common designs are fundamentally flawed - the common octohedral reflector being one - and as such are totally unsuitable for use on a small sailing boat. The latest reflectors from Echomax seem to be better than anything else on the market.
However in view of the increased reliance of commercial shipping not just on radar, but also automated collision detection systems, I think an active RTE must be the best way to go
Part of the problem is that many common designs are fundamentally flawed - the common octohedral reflector being one - and as such are totally unsuitable for use on a small sailing boat. The latest reflectors from Echomax seem to be better than anything else on the market.
However in view of the increased reliance of commercial shipping not just on radar, but also automated collision detection systems, I think an active RTE must be the best way to go
claymore
Well-known member
Re: Not Firdell Blipper
Well - I'm with you on that one. I don't often have to use my radar - probably because of the endless exceptionally clear and sunny days of brilliant visibility we seem to experience in Scotland - but on the odd half day when the sun hasn't managed to burn off the mist, I seem to spend my time between looking at the screen then looking around to see if I can make what I see on the screen resemble what I can see around me. I was crossing from Sunart to Tobermory this year which is only a midge's willie in length I know but it was a bit claggy and I could see a coaster coming up from Oban so I clocked him on the radar and watched as the range decreased. Missed each other by plenty but it was a good exercise in relating the screen to reality. This is because I haven't used it in anger so I feel I should know how to for when/if the day comes that I need to. (Better start blasting a few flares off in that case!)
regards
Claymore
Well - I'm with you on that one. I don't often have to use my radar - probably because of the endless exceptionally clear and sunny days of brilliant visibility we seem to experience in Scotland - but on the odd half day when the sun hasn't managed to burn off the mist, I seem to spend my time between looking at the screen then looking around to see if I can make what I see on the screen resemble what I can see around me. I was crossing from Sunart to Tobermory this year which is only a midge's willie in length I know but it was a bit claggy and I could see a coaster coming up from Oban so I clocked him on the radar and watched as the range decreased. Missed each other by plenty but it was a good exercise in relating the screen to reality. This is because I haven't used it in anger so I feel I should know how to for when/if the day comes that I need to. (Better start blasting a few flares off in that case!)
regards
Claymore
vyv_cox
Well-known member
Re: Not Firdell Blipper
We intend buying and fitting a radar this year and, since avoiding shipping is the primary aim, will probably select a Raymarine SL70C on the basis that it has MARPA. Looks like a very useful, if expensive, facility.
Agree about the interpretation. I attended a demonstration a few years ago at Port Dinorwic, and quite frankly could not understand a single one of the images on screen. A friend bought one some years ago and went through a long period of taking serious avoiding action for what turned out to be lobster pots. More stuff to learn!
Regards,
Vyv
We intend buying and fitting a radar this year and, since avoiding shipping is the primary aim, will probably select a Raymarine SL70C on the basis that it has MARPA. Looks like a very useful, if expensive, facility.
Agree about the interpretation. I attended a demonstration a few years ago at Port Dinorwic, and quite frankly could not understand a single one of the images on screen. A friend bought one some years ago and went through a long period of taking serious avoiding action for what turned out to be lobster pots. More stuff to learn!
Regards,
Vyv