Filling up ! The noose tightens

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markpoint

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Forgive me if this has been posted before....

I have just returned from my local BP petrol station having been refused unleaded petrol I wanted to put into my Tempo 24.5 litre Outboard engine fuel tank .... "Why" I asked.
"It's bigger than5 Litres" was the answer....

I have just phoned BP Customer Services who advised me that their policy is for a max of 2 x 5litres max in purpose built containers. I was told I could apply for a special licence if the fuel was for my business and the license did not cover personal use. I then resulted to stealth tactics and purchased fuel under cover a white van. In theory if all forecourts garages take this policy then either I make 3 seperate trips to the petrol station and decant from small into bigger tank, form a bogus business to obtain a licence, (probably at a cost), buy a bigger boat with integral tanks or just use oars.

Anyone else had this problem !
 
Go to another smaller filling station. With 20lt 'jerry cans'.
AFAIK the 'rues' are that 5lts is the max you can take in plastic containers - and 20lts in metal containers. I've never heard about there being a maximum you can buy at any one time.
 
The amount that can be sold to you in containers is covered by the licence for that individual filling station. The licenced quantity varies for each filling station.
 
Just spoken to Shell London, their group wide policy is as follows.

Max per vist

Plastic cans ( Emergency type) 2 x 5 Litres

Metal ( MOD) type 2 x 10 Litres Max !

This is a group wide policy not based on individual stations that operate on a franchise.

Stealth it is then !
 
What a nightmare...

Well the filler cap is in the boot of my car anyway so they would be hard pressed to prove that one..

Nik
 
2 x 5litre plastic cans marked "petroleum spirit"

2 x 10 litre metal cans marked as above.

Diesel is any amount in any size of suitable container.

I store and retail petrol and have a petroleum license.
 
[ QUOTE ]

Don't ask before filling them ?

They are hardly likely to demand that you pour it back into the pump !

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly!

If there's one thing I've learned after 23 years in the military:
It's a lot easier to get forgiveness, than it is to get permission.

Here endeth the lesson
 
At my local Morrisons the local "manager" came rushing out confiscated my third plastic can and threatened me with the police, fire brigade etc etc. Even suggested it was worth £150 fine and 3 points on my licence!!! All this because I had not presented my cans for approval before filling.

So I says "how many can you fill in a day then?"
"Its anew law. Only 2 per 24 hrs and we,ve got your number so you,d better not come back" he says.

At this point I told him that the world and him had gone completely mad.

On further investigation it appears that legally you can fill as many 5 litre plastic cans as you wish but only "store" 2 in your car. DOsent say you cant transport them home in your car. However when petrol stations are given licences the local gorvernment decided on the rule and regs which can include silly extra rules as above.
 
i use the shell station near to my marina in heybridge. i fill an outboard tank of 22ltrs *2 and never had a problem with them, but a lot of the boaters go there and i suppose it's good business for them
 
I fill up at our local Asda 'Quick Pay' pump where you put your card into the machine, enter your PIN, then can take fuel up to the value of £70. The car blocks the view of the camera as I fill up 6 gallon plastic (purpose made!) tanks with unleaded. The notices do say only 5 litres per plastic container and 10 litres per metal container but I've never been challenged.
 
That's because you are operating commercially. Transport of petrol for personal use is specifically exempted from legislation such as Carriage of Dangerous goods act 2004 etc.


eg
"19 These regulations are solely concerned with the commercial transport of hazardous substances and do not cover petrol carried on a vehicle for private use.

SUMMARY
20 At filling stations, there is no specific legal restriction on the type or number of containers that can be filled (although Petroleum Licensing Authorities often use licensing conditions to limit the containers sizes). The legal limits are on how and where they are subsequently kept.

21 Carriage of petrol is not covered by petroleum legislation. However, petroleum licensing officers should advise filling station operators to ensure that only containers suitable for the purpose are filled."
http://www.hse.gov.uk/lau/lacs/65-9.htm

or

"Petrol - small scale carriage
ADR exempts completely private, non work related carriage. A HELA Circular discusses other aspects of the private storage of petrol and this includes advice about containers."
http://www.hse.gov.uk/cdg/manual/commonprobs.htm#petrol

or " These regulations do not affect purely private carriage. "
http://www.hse.gov.uk/fireandexplosion/petroleum/faqs.htm

So it would appear from all the documentation that I've been able to find that the limitations for private use appear to be only that the correct containers are used, the licence granted to the filling station which will detail how much that filling station is allowed to dispense to transportable containers, and groupwide policies by companies such as BP or Shell.

Storage is a different matter, and the RYA have a good summary
http://www.rya.org.uk/NR/rdonlyres/F36E0...AGEOFPETROL.pdf
 
We have had these rules in Australia for some time. Not always enforced fortunately. I cart diesel to my fishing vessel in a 44 gallon drum. It has to be secured in a steel frame that has to go up to 2/3 the heght of the drum and meet various other specs. Supposed to have all the hazard warnings etc. Recently the company I normally buy from refued to allow me to fill this 44 gallon drum. The rules had changed again, my 44 gallon drum does not have thick enough steel walls. Now you have to have an approved bulk container and the capacity is limited to 800 litres. Interestingly they can be plastic.

I simply fill up at a normal service station, the price is the same and the staion people seem to like selling diesel off in 44 gallon lots. At the wharf when filling we are supposed to barricade the area off, so far we have not had to do this but the rules are in place.
 
You really have to be carefull with fuel especially petrol. The problems of static buildup and consequent spark to other metal is very real. Hence only plastic designated suitable for fuel should be used. I presume it uses a conductive additive to the palstic.

Many people me included get way with poor handling of fuel for the lawn mower or o/b. While this is just as dangerous as handling large quantities the results of a large quantity fire can be horendous.

Aviation has very strict practices including earthing of contaiers to ground and one another before decanting. Electric pumps are specifically designed to be safe in a vapoutr environment.

There was a lovely picture many years ago in the Aviation Safety Digest of a heap of ash that was a helicopter. The pilot was pumping fuel from a 200l drum into the tank using a 12 volt pump from the helo battery.
The tank overflowed and fuel was spilt. In a rush he yanked the leads off the battery .... result one inferno.

Fuel handling can be dangerous with very dramatic results. The more so for larger quantities. I am not sure the size of container rules will make things safer but it is not surprising that size rules are made. be carefull olewill
 
Does your car run on unleaded? If so, you just need to syphon from the car's tank then go and fill up again.

And while on the subject of syphoning, there's a super syphon device I picked up at a boat show a few years ago. It consists of a 3/4" tube with a ball valve at one end. You dip the valve into the tank, jerk the tube up and down a few times to draw up the fuel and away you go. The large diameter tube means it works quickly, unlike the squeeze-the-bulb type. The only way to refuel from cans at sea.
 
Not quite the only way

Take a length of suitable hose

one end in container

other end in tank

container higher than tank

cup hands around neck of container and pipe.

put lips to cupped hands and blow vigrously.

air pressure forces fuel up the pipe and establishes the syphon

no nasty diesel drinking and all you need is a length of pipe.
 
I was once going to do that but quickly came to the conclusion that 8 x 5 gallon oil cans are easier to handle. Good job you've got a nice frugal Gardner.
 
[ QUOTE ]

If there's one thing I've learned after 23 years in the military:
It's a lot easier to get forgiveness, than it is to get permission.



[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting contrast. In business the attitude seemed to be - "do what you think best but dont come to me if you get caught, I dont give absolution"
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

If there's one thing I've learned after 23 years in the military:
It's a lot easier to get forgiveness, than it is to get permission.



[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting contrast. In business the attitude seemed to be - "do what you think best but dont come to me if you get caught, I dont give absolution"

[/ QUOTE ]

In the military - as elsewhere in the civil service - you enjoy a certain job security.
Unless I get caught buggering the admiral's poodle, they're not really going to fire me.

Hence, when I put on my "I'm so sorry"-mask, a "OK, but don't do it again" is usually forthcoming.
 
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