fisherman
Well-known member
What does the panel think about a ferro cement Fal working boat, 28 ft, 44 years old? Any likely issues? Asking for a friend...,...
Ferro
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NormanS
Well-known member
I believe that insurance companies are very chary about Ferro. If only 3rd party required then no problem.
jwilson
Well-known member
If it's the one ferro working boat type I know of, it looks well built. Good ferro is very very good, bad ferro is awful. Yachtmaster Insurance are the people to try re insurance on ferro.
38mess
Well-known member
Man old man served on concrete ships in WW2. That is all I know. There is a concrete ferry in Cardiff bay. Very robust and easy to fix
B27
Well-known member
44 years is beyond 'end of life' for some reinforced concrete structures ashore.
What will happen when rust eventually cracks the cement away from the steel?
28 ft is unusually short for a ferro hull? It must be either very thin or quite heavy for its size?
What will happen when rust eventually cracks the cement away from the steel?
28 ft is unusually short for a ferro hull? It must be either very thin or quite heavy for its size?
jwilson
Well-known member
Ferrocement and reinforced concrete are very different materials. A well built ferro hull can be under 20mm thick, though many are a bit more.
28 ft is certainly at the bottom end of common sizes for ferro, but it need not be significantly heavier a structure than a working boat in wood or GRP. These are not lightweight boats - a GRP Heard 28 displaces a LOT more than my 35 ft Jeanneau cruiser.
28 ft is certainly at the bottom end of common sizes for ferro, but it need not be significantly heavier a structure than a working boat in wood or GRP. These are not lightweight boats - a GRP Heard 28 displaces a LOT more than my 35 ft Jeanneau cruiser.
B27
Well-known member
Ferrocement is sand/cement reinforced with steel.
Generally thin steel.
I reckon most of these boats have just been absorbed into the ground at the edge of some boatyard's hardstanding by now. Much easier to get rid of than GRP.
There was an abandoned one at a certain yard in Southampton. When it was eventually broken up, it was like an eggshell, the wiremesh had mostly rusted within the cement. Just thicker bits of wire and rebar to go in a steel scrap bin and sweep the rest into the bushes. It had looked fairly intact.
How do you survey one of these things?
Generally thin steel.
I reckon most of these boats have just been absorbed into the ground at the edge of some boatyard's hardstanding by now. Much easier to get rid of than GRP.
There was an abandoned one at a certain yard in Southampton. When it was eventually broken up, it was like an eggshell, the wiremesh had mostly rusted within the cement. Just thicker bits of wire and rebar to go in a steel scrap bin and sweep the rest into the bushes. It had looked fairly intact.
How do you survey one of these things?
westernman
Well-known member
My understanding is that they are effectively impossible to properly survey. (Apart from the really obvious cases which you would immediately run away from even if the price was negative).
And this then makes getting them insured difficult.
rogerthebodger
Well-known member
There are now wats to inspect reinforced concrete including ferro boats hull
Can concrete be X rayed?
Digital X-ray imaging produces a clear, accurate image of the features embedded in concrete. Digital concrete x-ray imaging involves the non-destructive use of hard X-rays or gamma rays to image the interior of a concrete target to identify and locate rebar, conduit, post tension cables and other embedded objects.
Concrete Digital X-Ray Imaging Services -Penhall Company
It nay be possible to us a wall metal locator that will show you where water pipes of before drilling into the wall
There are also migrating corrosion inhibitor
migratory corrosion inhibitor
Concrete is always exposed to various elements in the environment. It needs to be protected with the right product to improve the integrity and increase the service life of the structure. Cortec® provides solutions like Admixture which can be mixed in the concrete during the construction.
You can also apply a penetrating epoxy to seal the inside and outside of the concrete surface there days
This technology was not available in the hay days of ferro boat construction
Can concrete be X rayed?
Digital X-ray imaging produces a clear, accurate image of the features embedded in concrete. Digital concrete x-ray imaging involves the non-destructive use of hard X-rays or gamma rays to image the interior of a concrete target to identify and locate rebar, conduit, post tension cables and other embedded objects.
Concrete Digital X-Ray Imaging Services -Penhall Company
It nay be possible to us a wall metal locator that will show you where water pipes of before drilling into the wall
There are also migrating corrosion inhibitor
migratory corrosion inhibitor
Concrete is always exposed to various elements in the environment. It needs to be protected with the right product to improve the integrity and increase the service life of the structure. Cortec® provides solutions like Admixture which can be mixed in the concrete during the construction.
You can also apply a penetrating epoxy to seal the inside and outside of the concrete surface there days
This technology was not available in the hay days of ferro boat construction
Tranona
Well-known member
That is exactly the point that jwilson was making - not all ferro boats are the same and those that were properly built such as by Windboats are still going strong after 40 ,or 50 years. It was the DIY builders who thought it was just like reinforced concrete that gave the material a bad name. Regrettably the majority of boats were built the latter manner and many are falling apart.
B27
Well-known member
Where are all these ferro boats which are still going strong?
There's only a handful on Yachtworld and some of those look like listing errors.
Likewise I think there were probably quite lot of steel boats built in that era which are no longer with us?
There's only a handful on Yachtworld and some of those look like listing errors.
Likewise I think there were probably quite lot of steel boats built in that era which are no longer with us?
penberth3
Well-known member
Tranona
Well-known member
The number built professionally was very small and are dispersed around the world - that is what they were built for. The range of designs in the UK suitable for the material was small, mainly Endurances and Colin Archer derived. However if you look down under you will find a much wider variety of designs but again by their nature built in small numbers, mostly DIY or from professionally built hulls. People keep them for a long time and they don't come up for sale on brokerage sites.
Fair to say, though that many of the heavy displacement "bluewater" boats of the 60s thru 80s irrespective of hull material are rotting away somewhere having slid down the ownership ladder to "banger" territory, not just because of decay of the hull fabric but simply worn out and beyond economic repair.
garymalmgren
Active member
Any likely issues? Asking for a friend...,...
One very big issue.: RESALE VALUE.
gary
One very big issue.: RESALE VALUE.
gary
fisherman
Well-known member
Thanks for a very informative response. I will pass on the info. For a few minutes I was wondering if Ferro sidestepped all the other issues with wood/grp/steel etc. beinteresting to see how the sale progresses.
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Bajansailor
Well-known member
She looks nice in the photos.
Re the asking price of GBP 15k, how would this typically compare against a 'traditional' timber Falmouth working boat which might be offered for sale?
fisherman
Well-known member
There was one, wood, 1984, with diesel engine, actually working on the oysters, £8k, not sure if it sold.
fisherman
Well-known member
Found one, 1905, 'Ivy', £6k.
Traditional Wooden Falmouth Working Boat for sale from United Kingdom
Traditional Wooden Falmouth Working Boat for sale from United Kingdom
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Tranona
Well-known member
Very difficult to establish a value on these boats. Some are working boats that tend to be owned by families and have the right to dredge for oysters, some are ex working boats and used for leisure and racing, a few like this one are built specifically for racing and yet others mainly in GRP are fully kitted out cruisers. Most of the last type were built by Martin heard and this is a fine example red-ensign.com/boats/heard-28/ As you can see in a completely different price bracket.
Although the working boats are a "type" they vary in details and the traditional ones were locally built "by eye". Heard took a mould off one of the traditional boats and some of his hulls were used for working boats but most were fitted out as yachts, either by his yard or DIY. The ferro boat was designed by Percy Dalton who was active in designing old style boats for modern production and ferro was a good material for making a one off. As the photos show it is a simple boat, mostly just hull with a ring deck and foredeck in sheathed ply. No engine as it is kept on a swinging mooring and of course all racing under sail. The working boats also fish under sail only.
A rather esoteric scene and the racing success of this boat should help find it a new owner, maybe a syndicate as they need a good crew to race competitively.
ean_p
Well-known member
I crewed aboard a 43ft Hartley design on a transatlantic crossing in the early 80's and it was excellent in every way. Home made with skill and care the only downside we could think of was the effect of underwater damage following a collision or impact in that the steel matrix would be exposed and consequently suffer corrosion. The answer we later found was that the repair is effected over a wider area so that all exposed matrix can be cleared of corrosion products and hence not continue to degrade once recoated. So a temporary repair is quite easy and quick and a full repair more involved. Full structural strength is apparently achieved at around 100 years! It can be drilled through and things bolted on but modifications are more demanding. In general terms as a material its possibly below solid GRP but, for me, above cored GRP .......
