ferro cement

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stevel

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I'm on the verge of making an offer for a 38' ferro ketch.
I discover that almost all insurance underwriters are refusing to cover ferro boats.
How worriede should I be?
Anybody any experience/knowledge/ideas about ferro?
She's professionally built, looks very fair, undamaged, clean outside; very poor access to hull inside.
 
Whilst not necessarily a problem, I think the fact that insurers refuse business for them is telling to an extent. I believe there is a lot of history around poorly built (usually self-built) ferro boats which may influence their decisions.

More importantly, how long would you look to keep the boat? Resale could be difficult either in terms of getting your cash back or even finding a buyer.
 
G’day Stevel.
Ferro boats were mostly built in back yards and many insurance companies were burnt by them as the construction methods and technics used were not well controlled; professionally built craft are a bit better when it comes to insurance but only at a premium cost.
If you can prove the boat was professionally built and have the results of a qualified surveyor, you ‘may’ be able to get her insured, but it will be expensive.
Many fine examples of Ferro construction are still sailing though most are now covered with epoxy to water entry and rusting of the wire reinforcing.
Even if you do purchase it, you may have problems later when you try to sell her.

Avagoodweekend Old Salt Oz.
 
I also nearly bought a ferro cement boat, professionally built and fitted out by a boat builder, very good condition, at a very tempting price, and I was also advised that insurance would be a problem - this and other considerations put me off the deal. But I still regret it, she was a nice boat...
 
the website www.ferroboats.com has the name of some ferro boat insurers. I have a ferro boat and I do like the material. Owners of other boats can look down on ferro, however unlike their wood, steel or plastic boats my hull is 30 years old and stronger today than when it built.

The major draw back of ferro isn't weight (a 38 footer ferro boat that displaces 12 tonnes weighs the same as a 38 foot grp boat that displaces 12 tonnes.... Of course you'll never make a super light racer from ferro.. but for a solid heavy displacement cruiser, its a good material.. the major drawback is fixing things to the hull... especially inside.

We have just gutted the aft cabin of our boat and have been rebuilding. First painting with a waterproofing wall prep solution then insulating with flame retardent foam.

We wanted to fit tongue and grooce to the bulkheads and you can't screw into the hull! We found the best solution to be to stick battens to the hull using sub floor adhesive.. immensely strong, works in the damp and easy to use.

It works very very well and our aft cabin has gone from being a chill damp place to being warm and dry and much more pleasant.

Make sure you get a good survey and make sure the boat was designed to be built in ferro.. Hartley and Sampson are the two best known designers. Also make sure the plans were adhered to during construction. We almost came acropper and nearly bought what was reported as a junk rigged Hartley tahitian called Westaway.

The boat was gorgeous, 50 foot long, beautfully fitted out and on sale at a remarkable price. However it looked a little low in the water. After talking to the designer, Colin Brookes he advised us to steer clear of her as the boat was modified to the point where it couldn't be called a Tahitian any more and looking at its marks it was floating about a foot too deep.. making it 10-20 tonnes over weight.

Lastly get a good experienced ferro surveyor to check out the boat.

Anyway good luck and hope things go well!

Regards,

Nick
 
Ferro boats have a bad reputation because of the many unfinished and/or badly made examples around. The other problem is once made it is difficult to know what state the hull is in. You can only tell by drilling a hole and that only proves that the cement is good in that place. I have a ferro boat (professionally built hull, essex smack) and I like it, its immensely strong very low maintainance and I paid a fraction of what I would have paid for a boat of the same size in wood or steel. It is starightforward to get 3rd party insurance and I got fully comp for 3% of value. However it took me a while, the brokers are DRL Marine Services Ltd 01692 670190. As for resale well if you buy cheap(er) and sell cheap(er) what is the problem.

pete
 
A few questions you might want to ask yourself;
If concrete is waterproof why do buidings have a waterproof membrane on top of roof decks ?
If i'm concerned how will any perspective future purchasers feel when i come to sell and the boat is x years older ?
Do i feel comfoftable knowing all stresses and loads (exept compression) rely upon the integrity of a mild steel mesh embedded in concrete with a moisture content ''off the scale'' ?
IMHO reinforced concrete is a fantastic material....for buildings.
 
I used to crew occasionally on a professionally-built 72-foot ferro staysail schooner. I'd heard about the insurance problems. So, on the second weekend trip, I asked the owner/skipper how he got insurance. He said there was no problem - he used Pantaenius (sp?)
 
Ferro-cement is not reinforced concrete. It's reinforced cement. Concrete contains graded rock or similar ballast. Cement contains sharp sand. The problem with ferro cement is that no cement is either waterproof or vaporproof and that the reinforcement is generally cold rolled steel which will eventually rust unless both the interior and exterior sides are epoxied. Steel reinforcement requires at least 25 mm cover on each side to be effective. Ideally if a ferro cement boat is made professionally then the reinforcement should either be stainless bar (too expensive) or CorTen II drawn bar - but the latter is not made.

The other downside with any type of cement (except SlabCon) is that it can't be patched: cement only sticks to cement when the original cement is in a green state.

Ferro-cement in many ways is an ideal material. What it needs is more research to make it impact flexible and to solve the vapour permeability problem to stop the reinforcement from rusting .... perhaps epoxying the steel reinforcement prior to pouring might be an answer ... but the whole of the epoxy treatment would have to be contiguous ... and therein lies a set of problems within a problem within a problem.

Now if we could artificially manufacture wood with all its characteristics without the rot problems we could have a new wonder material ... Equally if we could make a flexible reinforceable cement .... Hmmmm! Who's going to pay for the research?
 
Sorry to disagree but cement is cement it contains NO agregate either fines (sand) or large (graded stone) .Cement on its own is as much use as a chocolate fire guard.
 
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