FBMain - Allslip slides or Rutgerson cars ok?

[aidancoughlan]

Hi all,
I'm considered a fully battened main, but can't stretch to the expensive tracks and cars that are obvioulsy the best solution for handling the compression loads from the battens against the mast. There appears to be cheaper solutions that work in the existing groove on the mast - "AllSlip" slides from Bainbridge - which are special hard plastic/low friction slides that have a flange that slide on the outside of the mast (as well as the bit in the groove), and Rutgerson batten cards which have little wheels that run on the outside of the groove against the mast.

Has anybody been down this road - will it work on a 28ft boat or would I end up throwing it all away and having to shell out for the expensive stuff anyway ?

regards,
Aidan.

 

[sailorman]

have a look @ friedrikson cars they have a "slug" that goes in the sail track with re-circulating balls that run up the aft side of the mast.
not cheap but v/good had mine 5 seasons & good as new, sailmaker reconds they will do 3 sails in their lifetime

 

[Ships_Cat]

We just have metal slides taped on at the batten and reefing positions (plastic for rest) and have no problems. On a 40 foot boat I can get our heavily constructed cruising main to the top of the mast by hand, although the last metre or two is easier with the winch - I think most of the weight is the weight of the sail, rather than friction in the track.

I have seen the comments on compression loads against the mast but in my view they are overstated (think about the forces, the batten is compressed into the pocket at both ends and it is only the roach that is likely to push forwards).

A heavy duty flat, not round, slide attached with tape to a plastic end fitting to the batten pocket should be adequate, in my view. The webbing needs to be long enough so that the luff can rotate out horizontally when the sail is lowered.

John

 

[aidancoughlan]

Hi, I've looked at the Friedrickson at the boat show, it looks very good but while it's not as expensive as full tracks the cost for 5 battens will almost double the cost of the sail on my boat!

I am hoping that I can get away with an arrangement something like Shipscat's- normal slides for between the battens, and slides with a flat surface to press against the mast to stop it twisting in the groove; it seems the AllSlip sliders are designed for this purpose. It's encouraging to hear that it can work on a 40ft boat - there's a good chance it will work fine for me in that case.

I'll ask the Sailmaker for something along these lines & see if he thinks it will work.

 

[Ships_Cat]

Hi Aidan

I take it from your comments that maybe your track takes slug type slides, not flat ones. However, if you use ordinary flat metal slides, rather than slugs, then you should not need a compression flange (we use flat slides, not slugs).

I just did a Google on AllSlip and got to North Sails http://na.northsails.com/Cruising_Sails/SolutionsLuffSlides.htm who also seem to be saying that just the ordinary flat slides are ok if your track takes them.

A good sailmaker should give honest advice if he is not out to maximise the deal.

John

 

[ytd]

The Rutgerson cars slide well but we had problems with the luff attachment to them on our Bavaria 44. The attachment points without battens unscrew even with locktite and you lose the connecting pin. This can be replaced by a 6mm stainless bolt which seem to stay in but look a bit rough.

Stay away from the Rutgerson batten ends. We have broken 2 in the last 12 months. When the sail flaps during tacking or reefing the compression load (which the fitting handles well) is turned into a lateral load which the pocket cover is not designed to take and the plasric fails.

Tony

 

[wicked]

If you go for the ones with the 4 little wheels, make sure you have space for the upper ones to pass between the spreaders if your spreaders fit to a casting which goes nearly right round the mast. I had to use a flat slide on my top batten as the wheels were too wide to go through the casting.

Also, don't forget the sail will stack higher on the boom, so you may need a new sail cover as well.

Dave

 

[john_morris_uk]

We inherited a fully battened main with the sort of cars/slides that I think you are describing. I don't know the name of them, but they slide in the existing mast track and have no wheels or bearings. We have been pleasantly suprised by how easy they are to hoist.

The disadvantage of not having any ball bearing/wheel type slides is that we have to be very careful about hoisting and handing the mainsail only when we are dead into the wind.

My understanding (without ever having used them) of the fancy track and reciprocating bearing slides is that you can drop the main much more easily when it has any weight of wind in it.

 

[Robin]

Some sound advice from the other replies. Just one comment to add is that on some older masts as we had on our previous Westerly 33, the aft face is quite rounded and the car with 4 little wheels doesn't sit or run well on it. We had the other option with the low friction slides which worked very well. For really easy running I would put a good blob of genuine old fashioned wax polish on the slides and raise/lower the sail a few times to distribute it. We did this at the start of each season and it made the sail very easy to raise/lower, it would drop and stack almost on it's own.

 

[philmarks]

I've got the Rutgerson batten slides. I've had a couplf of failures of the plastic fittings which take the tensioning strap, and also found that they tend to jam on the way down when the ends of the longer battens reach the stackpak I have. Yes have lsot a couple of the reatining screws as another poster has. I check them regularly, and it's no longer a problem. Also important to drop the meain dead head to wind as another poster says.

I manage with them, got used to them now.

 

[aidancoughlan]

Re: FBMain - Thanks for all the input

Hi all,
Many thanks for all the responses.
The NorthSails link that Ships_cat provided says that
"If you have a luff groove that requires round, internal "slug" slides, you will have to be a little more trouble. The slides at the front of the full battens on a slug slide mainsail need to be Allslip-style slides. The Allslip slides have a flange that rides up against the outside of the mast track and handles the compression load. This is a good solution but it typically requires that the mast gate area be modified to allow the flanges to pass."
I think this is in fact my case (I cant get to the boat to check for sure) - the groove on the mast takes round 'slugs', which is why a local rigger that knows the mast pointed my towards Friedrickson - they use a slug inside the groove with a flat piece on the outside of the mast running on little ball bearings. However, this I cant afford !

If slides work on a 40ft boat, as with Ships_cat, then I'm thinking it should work for me.

john_morris has a larger westerly than mine and seems to have inherited something like the allslip slides - it sounds like they work well as long as you go head to wind which I would expect.

I'm gone off the Rutgerson cards (the little cars with wheels that dont need a dedicated track) since some posters seem to have had problems with them. Robin also has a Westerly and suggests they might not fit a mast with rounded aft (which mine is too) - he seems to have managed with slides also.

thanks again for all the input, I think i'll push for the FB main and try to get a workable slider arrangement going. If it doesnt work I can always save up for the fancy stuff this for next year!.

regards,
Aidan.