Fast track Yachtmaster
- Thread starter iangrant
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rhinorhino
New member
I crewed for a YM exam where one of the candidates had a sailing job to start the following week which depended on passing his exam. Despite this he was quite unable to pick up a bouy under sail. He was trying to sail dead to windward by will-power alone. After an hour or so failing to perform this task and despite some heavy hints from the crew the examiner gave up. So far so good. However, the examiner agreed that if the candidate was to get up at five the following morning and go out with the instructor, the examiner would return at ten and allow him another go. This happened and he was given a pass.
I am far from sure that this is the way the scheme is suppossed to work and seems to reflect the problem with using YM as a commercal qualification
I am far from sure that this is the way the scheme is suppossed to work and seems to reflect the problem with using YM as a commercal qualification
boatmike
Well-known member
I think in fairness the RYA are doing the best they can and the key is in the bit that says "Newly qualified skippers should stay within the limits of their experience" or words to that effect.
After all people have to qualify somehow and how do unqualified people gain full experience?
In reality when hiring a commercial skipper owners take into account not only qualifications but experience as any employer would in any field. Newly qualified skippers with little sea time ideally get jobs as bridge officers under the command of an "old salt" for a time before they get a command of their own.
After all before one is allowed to drive a car one needs to pass a test but clearly this does not mean one is ready for formula 1 racing right away?
After all people have to qualify somehow and how do unqualified people gain full experience?
In reality when hiring a commercial skipper owners take into account not only qualifications but experience as any employer would in any field. Newly qualified skippers with little sea time ideally get jobs as bridge officers under the command of an "old salt" for a time before they get a command of their own.
After all before one is allowed to drive a car one needs to pass a test but clearly this does not mean one is ready for formula 1 racing right away?
ParaHandy
Active member
can't be true? there's no sleep qualification eg "in addition, at least one night passage in command and asleep"
jimi
Well-known member
Incredible, when I did my YM I was told I was expected to pick up the MOB or buoy first or second time & that was the difference between CS and YM ie the CS ould be allowed more attempts .. as long as he knew in principle how to do it thhis guy would not have qualified for CS with the examiner I had!
Gunfleet
New member
I've spent a night asleep on a boat. Can I have one?
jimi
Well-known member
Nope ... sleeping with your head down the ... erm ... heads don't count!
ParaHandy
Active member
do you get commercial endarsement for occupying the loo all night .... !!
rhinorhino
New member
That is rather my piont. The standard the examiners expect also varies widely. I have crewed for quite a lot of examinations and standards vary even between the same examiner, strict when first qualified then getting softer.
In particular, my bug-bear is electronics, whether to use radar, chart-plotter etc. Some will allow a radar / chart-plotter night entry into a port some will not.
I would also question whether examiners are independant when schools can select thier own examiners. Fail too many of my students and you will soon be out of a job!
In particular, my bug-bear is electronics, whether to use radar, chart-plotter etc. Some will allow a radar / chart-plotter night entry into a port some will not.
I would also question whether examiners are independant when schools can select thier own examiners. Fail too many of my students and you will soon be out of a job!
Rowana
Two steps lower than the ships' cat
The following letter from the MD of Professional Yacht Deliveries appeared in the February edition of "Yachting World"
I must say that I agree wholeheartedly with all that is said.
Dear Sir,
Your extremely balanced editorial on the Yachtmaster qualification in the January magazine will hopefully help to raise the profile of a topic which will be close to the heart of many involved in the employment of commercial yacht skippers.
We at PYD have long argued that the current Yachtmaster certificate, whilst an excellent qualification for the leisure yachtsman, is completely inadequate for anyone hoping to Skipper in a commercial environment. The problem lies not with the schools, most of which do a first rate job, but with the RYA’s syllabus which is simply not demanding enough for those wanting to earn their living at sea.
The key lies in raising the requirements for the commercial endorsement of the basic ‘ticket’, so that it is only awarded on the basis of , say, ten thousand very varied miles and perhaps a rigorous further examination.
Depending as we do on an extremely high standard of Skipper being available we will be introducing our own Skipper Apprentice Programme in 2005. The objective of this scheme will be to take relatively inexperienced Yachtmasters, who show promise, and over six months getting them up to a minimum of 10,000nm on a variety of passages Worldwide. During this period they will voyage as a Mate to a number of different skippers and complete at least one ocean crossing. They will also visit numerous ports, see some ‘real’ weather and experience a number of different boats, whilst being mentored throughout.
Naturally there’s some self interest in all of this since we hope the best of these individuals will go on to become PYD Skippers, but we hope it will in its own small way help with the wider issue, which the RYA or the MCA really must address.
Yours faithfully,
Philip Coatesworth
Director
I must say that I agree wholeheartedly with all that is said.
Dear Sir,
Your extremely balanced editorial on the Yachtmaster qualification in the January magazine will hopefully help to raise the profile of a topic which will be close to the heart of many involved in the employment of commercial yacht skippers.
We at PYD have long argued that the current Yachtmaster certificate, whilst an excellent qualification for the leisure yachtsman, is completely inadequate for anyone hoping to Skipper in a commercial environment. The problem lies not with the schools, most of which do a first rate job, but with the RYA’s syllabus which is simply not demanding enough for those wanting to earn their living at sea.
The key lies in raising the requirements for the commercial endorsement of the basic ‘ticket’, so that it is only awarded on the basis of , say, ten thousand very varied miles and perhaps a rigorous further examination.
Depending as we do on an extremely high standard of Skipper being available we will be introducing our own Skipper Apprentice Programme in 2005. The objective of this scheme will be to take relatively inexperienced Yachtmasters, who show promise, and over six months getting them up to a minimum of 10,000nm on a variety of passages Worldwide. During this period they will voyage as a Mate to a number of different skippers and complete at least one ocean crossing. They will also visit numerous ports, see some ‘real’ weather and experience a number of different boats, whilst being mentored throughout.
Naturally there’s some self interest in all of this since we hope the best of these individuals will go on to become PYD Skippers, but we hope it will in its own small way help with the wider issue, which the RYA or the MCA really must address.
Yours faithfully,
Philip Coatesworth
Director
Das_Boot
New member
When a master starts work for us we allways put him on the ship as mate no matter how long he has held a masters license. Some take one trip before they move up to master some never do. The examiners need to use their discretion so do employers. I am refering to STCW95 not RYA but it makes no diffs.
simon501
New member
IMHO (ready to duck...) Qualifications should not be given out like sweeties.
If the person is able and willing to accept that there is always more to learn, and is at the very least wholly competent, and not necessarily knowledgeable in depth with every subject, the they should be given a pass.
I have recently been on a couple of courses on which some people that were passed as Competent crew really weren't (wrong attitude) and Day skipper for the same reason.
Of course, when I do my fastrak, I want every bit of help going!!
I'd really like to feel that there is consistency in the 'examination', and if the examiner feels that the person is not capable, they should not be passed.
How's about incompetent crew and day slapper qualifications?
If the person is able and willing to accept that there is always more to learn, and is at the very least wholly competent, and not necessarily knowledgeable in depth with every subject, the they should be given a pass.
I have recently been on a couple of courses on which some people that were passed as Competent crew really weren't (wrong attitude) and Day skipper for the same reason.
Of course, when I do my fastrak, I want every bit of help going!!
I'd really like to feel that there is consistency in the 'examination', and if the examiner feels that the person is not capable, they should not be passed.
How's about incompetent crew and day slapper qualifications?
boatmike
Well-known member
Endorses exactly the point I was making I think?
boatmike
Well-known member
Agree entirely. The basic ticket is only the first rung of a ladder in any profession.
I have taken on many engineers freshly out of university with basic degrees, and some with masters degrees. None were started anywhere but the bottom though and some gained experience faster than others. One now runs a major division of BaE and another works in a bank........
I have taken on many engineers freshly out of university with basic degrees, and some with masters degrees. None were started anywhere but the bottom though and some gained experience faster than others. One now runs a major division of BaE and another works in a bank........
Gunfleet
New member
If they do ocean passages that will account for most of their 10,000 miles - so much for variety. If they don't they will be some time getting in the miles this gentleman wants - possibly two sailing seasons. 5 return crossings from Harwich to Amsterdam must be approx 1000 miles, so he is expecting them to do approximately 50 equivalent return crossings, or 100 Solent to Cherbourg return crossings. As for << see some ‘real’ weather >> I suggest crossing the Thames Estuary in April or October will provide enough real weather with pilotage problems and navigational hazards thrown in for any one lifetime!
jimi
Well-known member
Bluidy helly, knew the YM was many things but never realised it was as good as a Master Degree in Engineering .. just off to build a new aeroplane, time Bae & Boeing had some competition!
Gunfleet
New member
If your boat had a proper keel intead of that diddly little thing it wouldn't waggle all over the place and one would not have felt.... ooh er! Anyway, I thought you did most of your channel traverses snuggled up by the holding tank, occasionally opening one eye to misread the plotter.
Gunfleet
New member
[ QUOTE ]
endarsement !!
[/ QUOTE ]
You've come over all Oirish
endarsement !!
[/ QUOTE ]
You've come over all Oirish
Alastairdent
New member
I found out something that really narked me. The RYA qualifications can only be taken on something shorter than 50ft.
so this summer I will be crewing on an 90ft barge, the skipper is a qualified instructor, but I can't take even day skipper on the boat!
so this summer I will be crewing on an 90ft barge, the skipper is a qualified instructor, but I can't take even day skipper on the boat!
zephyrsailor
New member
28-43ft for DS and above. comp crew on just about any size i think.
