Fairline Targa 63GTO

[Portofino]

Whilst not gods gift to boating so feel free to shout me down but in my view it would take an awful lot to make a 65ft hull slam.

I had a Cranchi Endurance and god would that slam so I do know all about slamming. See a white cap - SLAM

I drive boats not to excess by a long chalk but I pick a speed and stick to it until the sea finally annoys me so much I slow down. The speed i pick is for comfort by and large, but I don't hang about. The T40, S65 and now S58 have never slammed if you exclude the 65 disappearing into a huge hole that shook the poor thing to its very core ( on my first not local trip in the boat ... ).

Fairline ( Princess and Sunseeker etc) all know what they are doing and I would not think any of them would make something that would easily slam.

I do however not understand it being slower and heavier than a S65.

I am sure an Itama can for 50 knots all day but I am with Mapsm those people are in the minority in my view. The mind who taught me was a skipper called Richard. He constantly pointed out ..... remember this is a pleasure activity!

Let's move away from how we use our own boats to the current predicament FL are in .
It's no accident the 31 knots C 18 , nor is it a prop issue .
MapishM has drawn attention to " wider chine " ---
JRudge to " all the other F L ,s " did not slam
But looking at the vid and running pay attention to the water line length , how fwds it goes .Or to turn that around it's not pointing up ,so say 2/3 or so of the hull is in the water and the fine V is cutting or starting to cut / part etc ,like you see on a Squaddie 65 vid etc --- old failine .Old fairline have good seakeeping reputation , this is NEW
I reckon it's deadrise is low 12 degrees max .Vripack and Mancini ,hmm - Dutch river SD boats and super yachts
The vertical acceleration is inversely proportionate a sq of each degree , so you will notice a diff of say 12 and 15 in the same sea , and 15 and 18 and 18 and 23 really deep V ,s
Speed
Drags a killer -- wetted area --- well if it can,t lift then it drags -- then its slow .Get it out of the water lift it then it will fly .
Shaft angle too , every angle i.e. 10 from say 13 degrees means a greater % less power lost ,or more pushing .

That's my E room bulk head vs accommodation argument .The further back you site the engines the greater the angle -- not good - it's a straight shaft ,imagine the power loss if a V drive and extra Kg ,s .

So Looking at it so far unless we get a sea trial in 1-3 M waves to prove me wrong it does not bode well .

I,am off to Genoa next week -- I,ll find out the dead rise ---- any takers of over 12 ?

Remember it's a sports cruiser with an evocative name " GTO " rest of its competitors are in 30 knot cruise ,territory-wether you like it or not . 60 ftr and shafts .
As a FB floating family caravan ,fine 25 knots for more accommodating interior --- in that sector wins hands down

But you have to wear your " sports cruiser hat ". --- take the floating caravan hat off -- you are sat in a sexy boat
As said it's need to sit just under 2000 rpm " all day " ideally 18-1900 not 2200 with mid season growth .

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

Jury is still out on hull, it does not ride so bad in that video, I would give a 6/10, I like the angle and it does not ride high.
They where thinking 32 knots max on project so this is a boat for a 25 knots cruise.
Medium Vee deadrise is good for those speeds, and even new Princess are closing at 12-14 degrees aft. the previous 16 and 18 Bernard Olesinski hull is very much part of history nowadays.
Sunseeker might still be closing at around 18-20 but they never give hull angle deadrise, though most of there past decade hulls always had a bit of an imbalance due to not so perfect weight distribution.
The American sportfishers Viking and Hatteras close at 10-12 degrees aft, I am sure with they eat most of the boats in Cannes in 2-3 meter waves.
So deadrise is an important number but sometimes a hull goes beyond that, and how you work the distribution to the angle.
Even the revered Bertram 54 Dave Napier hull closed at 17 degrees aft, and is by today standards still considered one of the best sea-keeping boats in its class.
And even the Ferretti 165 Fly closed at 16 degrees, but used to be a seaworthy monster.

I think its fair to say if you want more speed you choose another boat. If the 63 GTO sells well we want see Fline tweaking ER for more speed (Brits are known to stick to the first project draft).
Nowadays the people who want speed at this size look at Pershing's first, if they have experience they go for an Otam. I think the Brits are out of this equation.

I still am amazed at the energy Fairline is bringing, endless choices to buyers for the interiors, it looks mostly a custom build.
Mancini looks are really nice and the presence of the boat (at least from the video) is beyond believe. Its only drawback I think is that it does not look much like a Fairline. It looks he went a generation ahead with his design, if you consider the Targa 53 and 48 as its predecessors.

The hull story is nothing new. When I was in Genoa show 2001 Force 5 wind (2-3 meter waves) blasting only few builders offered sea trials in those seas (Baia, Italcraft, Otam, Magnum, and Guy Couach).
I think this showed confidence in there product more then anything.
If you want a seaworthy boat that gives an extra step in real sea conditions you have to options. 1. Build it yourself 2. Forget the mainstream brands.

 

[henryf]

I had a look at the boat today. I think you have to see it very much as a prototype being worked on rather than the final product. Some interesting ideas like where is the sliding door - your first thoughts are how the hell did they get it into that 4 inch door frame

Lots of options regarding cabins, galley and even how far back the patio doors go. A chance for people to make the boat theirs but also a risk come re-sale if someone else thinks your are wrong.

I liked being able to step through the two tables in the saloon. I dont think the height adjuster was working to see it in action. Im sure there will be a lot of changes to hull 2.

You would have to be a friend of the marque to view it. Someone judging Fairline on the boat would be appauled so not sure if I would have shown it. I sense there was pressure to deliver on a promise made last year. Not a true reflection of the Fairline we all know.

I've taken some sympathetic photos which I will post up when home.

I'm more interested to see the Sq 53 at southampton.

Henry

 

[MapisM]

And even the Ferretti 165 Fly closed at 16 degrees, but used to be a seaworthy monster.

Sorry W, but I can't resist the (very rare!) opportunity to be able to correct you.
The F165 hull indeed had an excellent reputation - so much so that the mould was used for its successor, the F57 which I mentioned before. Both of which have been in my radar, and I still remember their specs very well: not that this affects your reasoning in any manner, but their deadrise was 15 degrees, not 16.
Btw, my 1st choice among Ferrettis has been the first Zuccon effort before the 165, i.e. the 175 (whose hull was also used for the 60, 62 and 620 afterwards). Which also had a deadrise of - no prize for guessing - 15 degrees.

Aside from all that, I can second all your considerations, except that:
1) 6 out of 10 is a vote I fully agree with, but I wouldn't call it "not so bad", which sounds more appropriate for somewhere between 7 and 8 out of 10, at least to my non-native EN speaker ears. But that's semantic.
2) The AoA looks fine also to me, but don't you agree that the boat appears to be sitting low in the water at P speed? In other words, don't you think that she looks what someone would call a "wet boat", which btw (for lack of a better expression) is becoming a popular definition also in IT?

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

It is always difficult to judge a wet boat especially in this size and with this video alone.
With this video alone you are correct, AoA (2 to 3 degrees) is good but she seems to pull a bit to much water forward in what look flat conditions.
Which would worry me more then sitting low, which usually is not a bad thing alone.

Thanks for the correction, yes 175 was 15 and 165 was 15. Was there a .5 in the 165 or was it a straight 15? I am wondering where I got the 16 from.... Might be the 590 then, but all this is off from my head.
Is your Dalla Pieta 56 Fly closing at 18 degrees?

Returning to the 63 Targa GTO, I think the teak detail on the bathing platform curve is really cool and something you expect from Sanlorenzo (they have something similar on the 76 and 86) and or Wally to do.

 

[MapisM]

It is always difficult to judge a wet boat especially in this size and with this video alone.
With this video alone you are correct, AoA (2 to 3 degrees) is good but she seems to pull a bit to much water forward in what look flat conditions.
Which would worry me more then sitting low, which usually is not a bad thing alone.

I believe that the water she's throwing forward (and also around her) is actually a red herring, because it's directly related to how low she's sitting in the water - or to how poor the hull lift seems to be, in other words.
As long as we are talking of P boats running within their P speed envelope, if you don't want to say that sitting low in the water is a bad thing per se (and I could see your point, if we were talking of BA for instance, just to mention a forum boat which still has a P hull but is radically different from the T63), I believe it's safe to say that a good hull lift is ALWAYS a good thing.
Just look at the pic below of the boat that just a few posts ago you defined "a seaworthy monster", and tell me if at any time in the T63 video you could see her boot stripe completely lifted above the w/line from bow to stern, as you can see it in this pic.

Incidentally, another good example would be a very similar pic which is in the paper brochure of my DP, but I don't have a scanner handy atm - I could post it tomorrow, anyway.
Now, I understand that there is a size difference between this boat and the T63, but we are also talking of "FB floating caravans", as Porto would call them, vs. a "GTO", ffs...!

Thanks for the correction, yes 175 was 15 and 165 was 15. Was there a .5 in the 165 or was it a straight 15? I am wondering where I got the 16 from.... Might be the 590 then, but all this is off from my head.
Is your Dalla Pieta 56 Fly closing at 18 degrees?

Nope, SHE is actually at 16, as per my post #84.
That's in fact one reason why I remember the slight difference between her and the F165/57...
Ref. a possible half degree more in the 165, well, I'm just quoting the spec sheets I've been able to find, according to which the deadrise was 15 without any specification of decimals. But they weren't very technical docs, so I can't be positive about that.
Regardless, off the top of my head I can't remember any Ferretti with a 16 deg deadrise. Surely not the 590, which is actually at 13 (same as the 630, IIRC).

Ref. your last paragraph, I couldn't agree more.
That and also other details are VERY elegant indeed, and the fact that as you said the boat design doesn't remind of FL previous models probably isn't a bad thing, all considered...
With all due respect for some of the old models of course, which back in their days were beautiful.

 

[MapisM]

another good example would be a very similar pic which is in the paper brochure of my DP, but I don't have a scanner handy atm - I could post it tomorrow, anyway

Ok, here's the other example that I had in mind.
Similar boat to the previous Ferretti, in terms of size and weight - therefore, a fair bit smaller than the T63, TBH.

But in the meantime, I also found a pic of a 65 footer, which is much closer in size and weight.
Actually, she still is a boat NOT comparable with the T63 in most other ways (being wooden built, to start with!), but it's an interesting pic because it shows VERY well what I mean by proper hull lift at P speed.