Fairline Squadron 50

[admillington]

Visited the Fairline Factory today and was given a look over the plywood mock up of the new SQ50. I was concerned that the move from my Phantom 50 to the Squadron 50 wasn't going to have many advantages - I was wrong. The leading edge design has meant a huge flybridge, large saloon with aft galley area, great forecabin and two large guest cabins.

Below is a model of the new SQ50

http://c0022061.cdn1.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/Boat 020.JPG

The work that must have gone into building the plywood mockup!

Flybridge

http://c0022061.cdn1.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/Boat 001.JPG

Forecabin

http://c0022061.cdn1.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/Boat 003.JPG

Starboard Cabin

http://c0022061.cdn1.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/Boat 004.JPG

Port cabin

http://c0022061.cdn1.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/Boat 005.JPG

Shell

http://c0022061.cdn1.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/Boat 007.JPG

Interesting that the hull and lower accommodation with me the same on the new Targa 50 as the Squadron 50

Thank you to Fairline, who also let my son come along and they gave him a complete tour of how a boat was made from mould to woodshop. Visited the 78 shop and saw JFM's beautiful boat - had to rush out when the fire alarm went off but luckly it was a false alarm .

-Andrew

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Strange decision to go for a forward master cabin when everyone else's new 50 footer and indeed, Fairline's own Phantom 48 has a midships master cabin. And why would a Phantom 50 owner move up to a Sq50 when the accomodation is not much different? The Sq50 flybridge may be large but the coamings look v low. Otherwise it looks like a striking design on the outside but I bet Princess are not losing too much sleep worrying about competition for their 50.

 

[Hurricane]

I'm in agreement with Deleted User here.
One of the key things that we've enjoyed with our Princess has been the mid cabin.

No more "slap and tickle" in the forward cabin.
Its much quieter sleeping without the sound of waves on the bow.

OK - so guests have to put up with it anyway but that doesnt mean that you shouldnt have a mid master cabin.

Also if you do some serious distance cruising, the mid cabin is somewhere you can get away from the boat's motion and have a good kip under way.

I wouldnt look at buying any boat now thats big enough and doesnt have a mid master cabin.

Thats what fundimentally put us off Fairline when we selected the Princess. Their only offering at the time was their Sq 66 but there was so much else wrong with that boat we just didnt look any further.

Since then, the new Sq 65 is much closer to the spec of boat that we eventually bought and even now it doesnt tick all our boxes.

Anyway, back to the point - a 50 foot FB cruiser must have a mid master cabin - IMO of course.

I'm sure jfm will come along shortly and put up a convincing case otherwise but IMO, Fairline stopped building the Sq58 far too late - they should have had their Sq58 replacement (the Sq 55 - even if they have put the bed sideways) far sooner - every other builder was including the mid master cabin years before. I'm sure this arrangement on the new 50 is a mistake. Princess produced a P50 with a mid cabin over two years ago and Sealine five years ago. IMO this is a very backward step.

 

[MapisM]

I wouldnt look at buying any boat now thats big enough and doesnt have a mid master cabin.

That's the key point: a 50 footer is NOT big enough.
I mean, you can fit a mid master cabin in it, but at the espense of other cabin(s) accomodation.
It doesn't take an architect to understand that to get 3 decent cabins in a 50', the only logical choice is to put the master in the bow.

That said, I agree that FL is making a mistake.
But not because I don't see the logic in their choice - it's rather because the demand on this type/size of boats is pretty much fashion driven, and the mid cabin is (and will remain in the near future, imho) in high fashion.

 

[admillington]

My view of the SQ50

The advantages of the forward cabin vz the mid cabin are:-

1. The saloon floor is flat.
2. The main cabin roof is flat
3. Lots of headroom - I am 6ft 1
4. Lots of light in the cabin
5. 3 decent cabins


The proof of the success or failure of Fairline's new design concept will be, I believe, start with the new Squadron 42 - let's see if that flies off the shelf or not.

The Squadron 55 might have been a lot time coming but it is a beautiful boat - if SWMBO hadn't decided we should move house, I would have ordered one!

http://c0022061.cdn1.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/Boat 008.JPG

 

[Hurricane]

Yep I see your points - both of you but you dont convince me.

50 feet is big enough to hav a mid cabin with enough headroom where it matters. Other boat builders manage.
OK so maybe not full height over the bed but if Fairline offset their beds the way the do, there wouldnt be the need for headroom in the middle of the cabin. Offset beds wastes headroom.

OK so the saloon cant have a flat floor - so what.
Thats like saying - lets remove the inside stairs to make more room - pointless.

I dont understand the light in the cabin arguement - whats wrong with the side windows we've come to expect these days. I know its a personal thing but I actually dont like these new overhead windows that Fairline are putting into their forward cabins.

I cant see that three decent sized cabins cant be provided in a 50 footer and still have a mid master cabin - as I say other boat builders manage. In fact, Sunseeker, Princess and Sealine have been doing this for years.

If I was buying a 50 footer - this Fairline design would be rulled out from the start.

Maybe I'm just old fasioned but the mid cabin is a MUST these days - IMHO of course.

 

[jfm]

There are some polarised views on mid cabins, evidently! Hurric is an exeprienced boater and insists on a mid cabin; I too have many years boating experience and don't want a mid cabin on a 50footer, and voted with my wallet last season in buying a new Sq58 rather than a Sq55 for the same price

So the builders can't please all of the people all of the time.

Mid cabins with central beds and big wondows are of course lovely. The question is, what price do you pay for it? And that depends how you use the boat. Taking the Sq58 example Hurricance, you wouldn't buy it (if you were in a 58er customer) becuase no mid cabin, whereas I wouldn't buy a boat in that size range unless it had a serious laundry and crew space. And I'm prepared to forgo the mid cabin to have those facilities. But that merely reflects the different ways we use our boats, especially the fact you choose not to employ crew and have a utility space for them to go about their business

Interestingly, when I was contemplating selling the Sq58 at start of this year, Essex Boatyards told me they had a list of people who were disappointed that new 58s couldn't be bought, and were on a waitlist for used Sq58 2008-2009ers, the newest. As soon as I decided to sell a couple flew over to see it within a couple of days and made an offer straight away for about £70k more than I paid for it. That would never happen with a Prin67 or many other boats even with mid cabins. Of course that didn't happen BECAUSE the Sq58 has no mid cabin; it happened because the Sq58 has a number of fantastic features (eg the flybridge of a 70footer) that can't be found elsewhere , and some buyers rate those features much higher than the midcabin issue (and there were only 2x 2009ers for sale in the world). Equally there is a whole stack of buyers who wouldn't touch the boat because they insist on a mid cabin

Overall I agree with Mapis. Very much imho a 50er is too small for a mid cabin. Sure, plenty of builders have done it but the rest of those boats are spoilt, imho. Of course midcabins are lovely and I'm very much looking forward to having one, but not on a 50er. And all that said, I think a 58-60 is just about big enough for a mid cabin if cleverly designed, so I'm still disappointed Fairline didn't make a Sq58 Evo with mid cabin (and a higher gunwhale line to fit it in), rather than their all-new55. Would have been a much bigger seller imho, and it would have had a much better flybridge than the 55, which is where you spend your days in the Med

But I guess we're in violent agreement that there are two camps: buyers who insist on mid cabin even in a 50er, and buyers who think the trade offs are too much and so are happy with a bow cabin. Good thing the market allows us a choice!

 

[Hurricane]

There are some polarised views on mid cabins, evidently! Hurric is an exeprienced boater and insists on a mid cabin; I too have many years boating experience and don't want a mid cabin on a 50footer, and voted with my wallet last season in buying a new Sq58 rather than a Sq55 for the same price

So the builders can't please all of the people all of the time.

Mid cabins with central beds and big wondows are of course lovely. The question is, what price do you pay for it? And that depends how you use the boat. Taking the Sq58 example Hurricance, you wouldn't buy it (if you were in a 58er customer) becuase no mid cabin, whereas I wouldn't buy a boat in that size range unless it had a serious laundry and crew space. And I'm prepared to forgo the mid cabin to have those facilities. But that merely reflects the different ways we use our boats, especially the fact you choose not to employ crew and have a utility space for them to go about their business

Interestingly, when I was contemplating selling the Sq58 at start of this year, Essex Boatyards told me they had a list of people who were disappointed that new 58s couldn't be bought, and were on a waitlist for used Sq58 2008-2009ers, the newest. As soon as I decided to sell a couple flew over to see it within a couple of days and made an offer straight away for about £70k more than I paid for it. That would never happen with a Prin67 or many other boats even with mid cabins. Of course that didn't happen BECAUSE the Sq58 has no mid cabin; it happened because the Sq58 has a number of fantastic features (eg the flybridge of a 70footer) that can't be found elsewhere , and some buyers rate those features much higher than the midcabin issue (and there were only 2x 2009ers for sale in the world). Equally there is a whole stack of buyers who wouldn't touch the boat because they insist on a mid cabin

Overall I agree with Mapis. Very much imho a 50er is too small for a mid cabin. Sure, plenty of builders have done it but the rest of those boats are spoilt, imho. Of course midcabins are lovely and I'm very much looking forward to having one, but not on a 50er. And all that said, I think a 58-60 is just about big enough for a mid cabin if cleverly designed, so I'm still disappointed Fairline didn't make a Sq58 Evo with mid cabin (and a higher gunwhale line to fit it in), rather than their all-new55. Would have been a much bigger seller imho, and it would have had a much better flybridge than the 55, which is where you spend your days in the Med

But I guess we're in violent agreement that there are two camps: buyers who insist on mid cabin even in a 50er, and buyers who think the trade offs are too much and so are happy with a bow cabin. Good thing the market allows us a choice!

Yes - I thought that would be the kind of reply - I knew your thoughts on the Sq 58.
I guess we will just have to agree to disagree

It seems that there are other points that we and others on this forum agree anyway - the internal stairs for one!!

 

[jfm]

Yes - I thought that would be the kind of reply - I knew your thoughts on the Sq 58.
I guess we will just have to agree to disagree

It seems that there are other points that we and others on this forum agree anyway - the internal stairs for one!!

Sorry to be so predictable. It's good that we disagree anyway - dull forum otherwise

That said, I totally agree on the internal stairs .

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

That's the key point: a 50 footer is NOT big enough.
I mean, you can fit a mid master cabin in it, but at the espense of other cabin(s) accomodation.
It doesn't take an architect to understand that to get 3 decent cabins in a 50', the only logical choice is to put the master in the bow.

That said, I agree that FL is making a mistake.
But not because I don't see the logic in their choice - it's rather because the demand on this type/size of boats is pretty much fashion driven, and the mid cabin is (and will remain in the near future, imho) in high fashion.

Nah, thats not true. Go and look at the mid cabin on a Princess 50, Sealine T50 or S/seeker Man 50 (now 52). You would not swap any of those cabins for a poky forward master cabin. Fairline did drop a b****** with their Phantom 48 in that it really was too small for a mid cabin and maybe, thats affecting their thinking. In fact maybe the Sq50 is just a P48 with a couple of feet stuck on the bathing platform, a revised layout and a new name. Wouldn't be the first time a builder has done that. In fact, Fairlines have always struck me as being a bit 'small' for their length.
Another factor may be the outgoing Phantom 50 and its galley position which was up in the saloon. I know many P50 owners liked the galley up location and giving the Sq50 a midships master cabin would probably mean the galley would have to be moved down or to the aft end of the saloon. Maybe this is just Fairline playing safe knowing that the layout of the P50 was liked by many owners so why change it. I still think its a mistake though

 

[admillington]

A couple of points:-

1. the fore cabin is not poky.
2. The gallery is aft.
3. This is so "not" a Phantom 48 with a couple of feet added to the bathing platform.
3. This Phantom 50 owner is ordering the Squadron 50, so maybe Fairline are not that stupid!

 

[TheBishop]

Stern master cabin

Got a 20 year old Trader 50 with a massive master suite in the stern. Ensuite huge shower room with hip bath !!! Full double bed and plenty of hanging space.

Steady as a rock to kip in and actually surprisingly comfortable for a mid passage kip even with the autohelm gear clunking away underneath you.

Also got a big forward guest suite with double arrangement but slaps around a bit when anchored, and two side cabins forrad with two single beds in one and double bunks in the other. They also managed to squeeze in a huge saloon and a good sized galley - big enough for fridge freezer, washing machine/dryer and dishwasher plus electric oven and hob and enough cupboards so so I regularly lose my Tabasco!

Cannot imagine why anyone would buy a 50 footer with a forward owners cabin - madness.

The Bishop

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

A couple of points:-

1. the fore cabin is not poky.
2. The gallery is aft.
3. This is so "not" a Phantom 48 with a couple of feet added to the bathing platform.
3. This Phantom 50 owner is ordering the Squadron 50, so maybe Fairline are not that stupid!

Oops, sorry, I apologise. Obviously touched a nerve there but it proves my point that the Sq50 will appeal to existing P50 owners. Fairline obviously know their customer base but I still think the lack of a midships master cabin will be a deal breaker for some punters; it certainly would be for my SWMBO if we were in the market for a new 50 footer

 

[MapisM]

Nah, thats not true. Go and look at the mid cabin on a Princess 50, Sealine T50 or S/seeker Man 50 (now 52).

You're actually making my point with this example.
All of these boats have actually TWO decent cabins, the third is a joke.
Which is fine, mind. As usually, it's a matter of choices/compromises.
Anyway, I never denied that the mid cabin is nicer. It's pretty simple really: the more boat space (which is by definition limited) you allocate to something, the nicer this "something" becomes. Be it a cabin, a head, a cockpit, a f/b - you name it.
'Fiuaskme, after decades of boating, I've yet to understand what other usage can be made of any cabin, other than the two typical ones, neither of which actually require a lot of space, do they?...
Ok, maybe I should rephrase my previous sentence as "a 50 footer is NOT big enough to waste some of its space for a mid cabin".
All imho, as usually.

 

[MapisM]

Got a 20 year old Trader 50 with a massive master suite in the stern.
...
Cannot imagine why anyone would buy a 50 footer with a forward owners cabin - madness.

Well, surely many boaters (judging also by the number/type of 50 footers around) would never buy an aft cabin 50'.
But I wouldn't agree with any of them which would call mad someone who does!

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

You're actually making my point with this example.
All of these boats have actually TWO decent cabins, the third is a joke.
Which is fine, mind. As usually, it's a matter of choices/compromises.
Anyway, I never denied that the mid cabin is nicer. It's pretty simple really: the more boat space (which is by definition limited) you allocate to something, the nicer this "something" becomes. Be it a cabin, a head, a cockpit, a f/b - you name it.
'Fiuaskme, after decades of boating, I've yet to understand what other usage can be made of any cabin, other than the two typical ones, neither of which actually require a lot of space, do they?...
Ok, maybe I should rephrase my previous sentence as "a 50 footer is NOT big enough to waste some of its space for a mid cabin".
All imho, as usually.

As the owner, I would want the largest and most palatial cabin I could get. I dont care how much space my guests have as long as they have a bunk and a bog. After all I paid for the boat! There is some contradiction here. You say you dont care how small the master cabin is but I bet you wouldnt say that about your house where doubtless you'd want as large a bedroom for yourself as you could get. That really is what a midships master cabin is about; you're getting a bedroom which is nearly domestic sized rather than a tiny forward cabin which is really closer to camping in a tent than sleeping in a house.
Anyway, if you were married to my SWMBO, you'd want as big a cabin as possible if only to store all the clothes/shoes/cosmetics she deems necessary for any trip on a boat

 

[jfm]

it's a matter of choices/compromises.
Anyway, I never denied that the mid cabin is nicer. It's pretty simple really: the more boat space (which is by definition limited) you allocate to something, the nicer this "something" becomes. Be it a cabin, a head, a cockpit, a f/b - you name it.
'Fiuaskme, after decades of boating, I've yet to understand what other usage can be made of any cabin, other than the two typical ones, neither of which actually require a lot of space, do they?...
Ok, maybe I should rephrase my previous sentence as "a 50 footer is NOT big enough to waste some of its space for a mid cabin".
All imho, as usually.

Totally agree MapisM. I said the same above: a mid cabin is of course very nice. The problem is the price you have to pay for it in a 50 footer, where space is in short supply

 

[jfm]

As the owner, I would want the largest and most palatial cabin I could get. I dont care how much space my guests have as long as they have a bunk and a bog. After all I paid for the boat!

Umm, that's particular view Deleted User which of course you're entitled to. But it's not a universal view (fortunately). Many boat owners care very much about guest and crew accommodation and largely forget the fact they're "the owner" while on board. Otherwise each time any of us accepted a kind invitiation from a friend to stay at their house or whatever it would bite us on the bum - we'd be allocated the lawnmower shed to sleep in. If you really "don't care" you might as well ask the builder to dispense with any bulkheads and just put in a 50foot master cabin

 

[MapisM]

As the owner, I would want the largest and most palatial cabin I could get. I dont care how much space my guests have as long as they have a bunk and a bog.

Fairenuff, as I said it's a matter of choices/compromises.
To us, having a decent space to offer to visiting friends is part of the boating fun.
And fwiw, the bed in my bow cabin is reasonably big, which is all I want. The space around it is not as much as in a mid cabin obviously, but also swmbo doesn't care about it, whilst she would go nuts at the idea of not having a galley upstair, frinstance.
Though I'm probably lucky, because my wife doesn't care at all about clothes, shoes, etc. while boating.
Otoh, if yours does, I guess you must be already considering a return to Costa Smeralda?
Croatia, nice as it is, is the ideal environment for bays hopping and overnighting at anchor, using very little (or none at all!) clothes and shoes.
When moored at YCCS, on the other hand...

 

[MapisM]

Umm, that's particular view Deleted User which of course you're entitled to. But it's not a universal view (fortunately)...

Funny J, would you believe that I didn't read your post before posting mine?
I began writing it some time ago, and left it open while I received a long phone call.
You were reading my mind, apparently!