Fairline Sedan 36 / Turbo 36 planing angle, are they bow high?

[sharpness]

I've had commented that when on the plane my boat appears to ride bow high. I do use the trim tabs "bow down" (and i have checked they are working correctly) but it doesn't appear to make that much difference to the running angle as you can see in the middle pic below. The tender is only a light airdeck type on davits so no heavy RIB to upset the balance. Fair amount of stuff in the lazarette, though nothing majorly heavy. Water tank situated towards the aft, like the Turbo 36, but they do appear to run less bow high. The pics below show the hull shape, the running angle on the plane and the wake shot behind.

For those familiar with this type of boat, do you think this running angle looks correct, or is she riding too bow high ?

 

[Greg2]

Doesn't look too excessive to me. Not unusual for larger/heavier planing boats to ride a bit bow high. Friends commented on our Broom running bow high at the weekend.....normal to us but high compared to their sports cruiser.

 

[superheat6k]

Your picture does show the boat riding high, and although I have trouble observing for pot markers from the lower helm on my Turbo 36, the bow rides nowhere near as high as yours. Looking at your pic you have no forward surface vision at all from the lower helm.

What speed was the photo taken at ? They will squat down at the stern between 9 & 12 knots.

I thought the Sedan 36 was more or less identical to the Turbo back to the cockpit, but yours has lower side port light windows and a blunter apron - what year is she ?

The Turbo 36 owners manual says that tabs are not necessary, although I find them useful for getting up on the plane without using WOT, or into a head sea.

 

[sharpness]

Your picture does show the boat riding high, and although I have trouble observing for pot markers from the lower helm on my Turbo 36, the bow rides nowhere near as high as yours. Looking at your pic you have no forward surface vision at all from the lower helm.

What speed was the photo taken at ? They will squat down at the stern between 9 & 12 knots.

I thought the Sedan 36 was more or less identical to the Turbo back to the cockpit, but yours has lower side port light windows and a blunter apron - what year is she ?

The Turbo 36 owners manual says that tabs are not necessary, although I find them useful for getting up on the plane without using WOT, or into a head sea.

Hi Trevor. She's a 1990, they put the lower port holes in the Sedan from 1989. The speed shown in the middle pic is about 20 knots. I have helmed from down below and vision is fine, but as you rightly point out i much prefer helming from the fly.

She gets up on the plane without trim tabs no problem, but even with full tabs down it doesn't make the difference i was expecting.

Although the hulls are identical, it does seem from another photo of a Sedan 36 i've seen that the Turbo 36 riding angle is slightly lower. Strange really, as the extra weight of the aft cabin would have done the opposite i thought.

 

[jfm]

She is running a bit stern low as distinct from bow high, imho. To get more stern lift to help cure this you could fit bigger tabs, or add some fixed tabs in the gap between your current tabs (a trick widely used by IT yachtbuilders), and look even harder at weight distribution (move water tank?)

It is also said, though I'm not sure of the science, that increasing the cupping on the props increases stern lift. You might of course have to reduce the pitch to compensate. This could be an expensive solution

The other thing is that painting the antifoul up to the chine (a practice that completely baffles me; why do this?) increases the apparent angle. In the running shot your eye is drawn to the angle of the line where black meets white. If that line were the waterline the running angle would look flatter.

 

[sharpness]

The other thing is that painting the antifoul up to the chine (a practice that completely baffles me; why do this?) increases the apparent angle. In the running shot your eye is drawn to the angle of the line where black meets white. If that line were the waterline the running angle would look flatter.

I agree, i prefer the look where the waterline stays at water level, but that was how she was when we purchased, and i haven't got round to changing it yet.

I like some of your other suggestions thanks, but in fairness it isn't something which causes a big issue where i could justify throwing time/money at it. Really more curious to know if all Sedans ride like this, or if i need to experiment with running with water tank empty, or re-distributing some of the gear from the lazarette. Upfront is 35m of chain and 15m rope in anchor locker so a fair bit of counterbalance weight there.

 

[paultallett]

I have to say..... And I am far from an expert but she appears to be running at the same angle that most sedans do when I see them out and about.

Agree with JFM re the antifoul. I always think the Corniche, Turbo and Sedan run very bow high, indeed only this Sunday we commented on a Corniche leaving Cowes and how it was very vertical.

If engines aren't struggling and your happy I'd leave things well alone, get out there and enjoy

 

[longjohnsilver]

I agree, i prefer the look where the waterline stays at water level, but that was how she was when we purchased, and i haven't got round to changing it yet.

I like some of your other suggestions thanks, but in fairness it isn't something which causes a big issue where i could justify throwing time/money at it. Really more curious to know if all Sedans ride like this, or if i need to experiment with running with water tank empty, or re-distributing some of the gear from the lazarette. Upfront is 35m of chain and 15m rope in anchor locker so a fair bit of counterbalance weight there.

I'm guessing your chain is probably 8mm, maybe 1.5 kilos per metre, so 52 kilos in total. That only equates to 52 litres of water, so not that much counter balance. Jfm's suggestion of fixed tabs should be a relatively inexpensive and easy to achieve fix.

 

[Greg2]

I have to say..... And I am far from an expert but she appears to be running at the same angle that most sedans do when I see them out and about.

Agree with JFM re the antifoul. I always think the Corniche, Turbo and Sedan run very bow high, indeed only this Sunday we commented on a Corniche leaving Cowes and how it was very vertical.

If engines aren't struggling and your happy I'd leave things well alone, get out there and enjoy

I think it is a Corniche on the front cover of mother latest MBM and it looks very similar to the photo of the Sedan here. I still don't think that there is anything unusual in the angle of the OP's boat.

 

[baylabayla3288]

Have you tried the effect of the tabs on your cruising speed? If the speed increases when you apply some tab, a fixed tab construction could be beneficial. Othervise not, you might even get an increased risk of broaching in following seas. These boats have relatively deep bow sections whitch tend to make them appear running bow high compared to some other designs. The deep forward sections gives the great ride and personally I think the look good when running (yes I'm biased ).

 

[kashurst]

probably a daft question but you never know - are you sure the tabs are functioning properly?

also try going a bit faster (I know that this will sound counterintuitive)- that will increase lift at the stern too, and may improve fuel consumption as less boat is in the water. I see quite a lot of boats out and about that are riding bow high and they just aren't going fast enough (conditions permitting obviously). I have found on a few boats its possible to speed up, get the boat well on the plane and then back off the throttles a bit and the boat will stay up.

 

[AdeOlly]

probably a daft question but you never know - are you sure the tabs are functioning properly?

also try going a bit faster (I know that this will sound counterintuitive)- that will increase lift at the stern too, and may improve fuel consumption as less boat is in the water. I see quite a lot of boats out and about that are riding bow high and they just aren't going fast enough (conditions permitting obviously). I have found on a few boats its possible to speed up, get the boat well on the plane and then back off the throttles a bit and the boat will stay up.

Yep. My previous boat, a Hardy Seawings, had two distinct stages of being on the plane. At ~15-20 knots she was planing but somewhat bow high, probably similar to OP's Sedan, increase the speed a bit further to say 22knots and the bow would noticeably drop several degrees and then stay steady all the way to 30 knots. So, IMO, just go faster

 

[sharpness]

Thanks to all for the continued replies.

Kashurst - Not a daft question at all, it was the first thing i checked and the trim tabs work fine giving full travel on both rams. I like the suggestion made by yourself and others to just go faster, sounds like a good excuse to me

As the saying goes "if ain't broke, don't fix it" and most views that have been given seem to back this up, so happy days.

Riding angle aside, i've been out in lumpy water a few times now and the boat takes it all in its stride, i'm very impressed with the old girl. When i now get questioned "your boat rides bow high", i'll take the advice given and nail the the throttles and say yes it does while going past them

 

[superheat6k]

The other thing is that painting the antifoul up to the chine (a practice that completely baffles me; why do this?) increases the apparent angle. In the running shot your eye is drawn to the angle of the line where black meets white. If that line were the waterline the running angle would look flatter.

I painted the forward 'wedge' white just last month whilst sorting the prop problem. IMHO the whole appearance of the boat improves. To get the line I simply applied a straightish line of masking tape about 2" above the water line mark and painted to it (upper edge of the tape) several coats of white trilux. Removed the tape.

Then about a week later applied the masking tape close to the line from above and applied the primocon and antifoul.

 

[jfm]

I painted the forward 'wedge' white just last month whilst sorting the prop problem. IMHO the whole appearance of the boat improves. To get the line I simply applied a straightish line of masking tape about 2" above the water line mark and painted to it (upper edge of the tape) several coats of white trilux. Removed the tape.

Then about a week later applied the masking tape close to the line from above and applied the primocon and antifoul.

Good going!

I hope the trilux stays white though, and doesn't go a bit green as white a/foul sometimes does - fingers crossed for you on that one

Years ago when I had a blue hull Fairline phantom 42 we had white a/foul and one year some yard painted the "wedge" in white a/foul. I was furious but it was too late. The paint in this wedge area always turned a bit greenish from then on, as the season wore on

 

[superheat6k]

Good going!

I hope the trilux stays white though, and doesn't go a bit green as white a/foul sometimes does - fingers crossed for you on that one

Years ago when I had a blue hull Fairline phantom 42 we had white a/foul and one year some yard painted the "wedge" in white a/foul. I was furious but it was too late. The paint in this wedge area always turned a bit greenish from then on, as the season wore on

If it does I will simply say to any casual observers it is reflecting the colour of the sea ! Mind you at £25 for a tiny tin I will have something to say to International.

 

[longjohnsilver]

Amongst other boating activities, I today painted my Orkney Spinner with white trilux mixed with copper powder ala Tcm recipe. It worked before on Eos (which has just this week been copper coated) so copper is playing an important role in my anti fouling regime!

 

[Bandit]

I had a Sedan 36 for 6 years but I cruised slightly faster 23 is knots and she ran at the same sort of angle bow up as the op's.

A good ride and a very good sea boat for the size.

The model was first rolled out in about 1986 and was I believe Fairlines most successful hull in that size range with about 550 boats being built about 2/3 Turbos and 1/3 Sedans. The proportions of that boat compared with similar length Princesses was quite wide for its length.

I think a lot of boats designed in that era did ride in a similar bow up attitude.

She had a full wide and high bow and in bad weather at slower speed especially with a following sea it kept your bow out of the next wave and I never worried about broaching or stuffing the nose she just pulled out on the buoyancy and rode over it.

A lot has changed with hull designs and styling since then and the styling leads the eye to think the boat is running a lot less bow up.

 

[sharpness]

I had a Sedan 36 for 6 years but I cruised slightly faster 23 is knots and she ran at the same sort of angle bow up as the op's.

A good ride and a very good sea boat for the size.

Thanks Bandit, another re-assuring reply, especially knowing you owned one previously. When cruising did you run with tab down or not bother ?

I remember when i was looking into purchasing either a Sedan or the Turbo back in 2012, i commented to SWMBO that i would have loved to have bought your old boat knowing you had fitted new engines, fuel tanks etc. Typically sods law, no sooner had i purchased then your old Sedan 36 "Bandit" came on the market. It looked like it took a while to sell, and the asking price was a bargain to me considering the engines and new fuel tanks fitted. I bet with those 63P Volvos she absolutely flies.

 

[talltim]

I think you'll find a lot of Fairlines of this vintage run bow up due to lift generated by the widebeam

Your pic looks very similar to how my cornice runs.