Fairline/Peters PLC

[Guest]

At last years LBS I bought a Fairline Squadron 52 from Peters PLC. Of course they were very friendly and helpful until I signed that contract, since then I have to fight for any single bit. First they let us - my wife, daugther and me - wait for a full week in Chichester w/o taking any notice from us, to fix the most obvious bugs. In their brochures they offer you highest quality, for " ..... - the true connoisseur." Forget it! Doors didn't fit properly, they sold used overlay carpets as new, the KVH Gyro compass was 30° off course, laquer is partly scratched or fades out, the water shore connection was flooding the lazarette, etc. etc. As it took so long and we had to leave Chichester after wasting the first week of our summer holidays, they promised to fix the remaining problems within 3 days in Cala D'Or, Mallorca. The boat was there on July 28th, but the Cala D'Or staff was not really informed about what they had to do and the boat had to stay. Actually we planed to sail to Mahon where Namu's mooring should be but instead we had to go back to Switzerland. After 4!! weeks Namu was delivered to Mahon - on my cost of course - and I had to pay a bloody fortune for the mooring as well, for THEIR warranty work. But imaging how shocked I was when I arrived in late September in Mahon to check the work and realised that almost nothing had been finished. The simple answer from Peters was: " We didn't get authorization nor parts from Chichester." In October Namu was in Cala D'Or again - and although they agreed to fix all open points under warranty she is still their, NOT FINISHED! The brand new Namu is waiting now 7!! MONTH w/o guardianage in the break waters of Cala D'Or for warranty work which could have been completed in one week, and I paid mooring and guardianage in Mahon since August 2001.

I heard about many owners who are "unhappy" with the "service" and "customer support" of Peters and Fairline. I want to make it public how awful they are! Send your thoughts eigther to my personal email adress juerg.tscharner@lsegroup.com or let us chat about it here and now.

 

[Guest]

I am in the marine trade and can believe all of this, it seems these days that we have come acustomed to this sort of shoddy service, personally I would have not paid a penny to anyone but referred all the invoices to Peters who I presume is the selling agent and Fairline who in turn should settle all of this, compensation should be the order of the day here, it might be worth getting the boat surveyed before anything else is carried out as it seems you have what is known in the car trade as a" Friday afternooner or a Monday morning job", you must have spent a great deal of money both on the boat and shipping etc, no doubt you will get a lot of responce on this from various forum members mainly jfm and matts(tcm), I am no leagle eagle, just too straight and honest, hope Peters and Fairline see this I,m sure they have already had your letters and calls etc, good luck for the future.
Why don,t you e mail Brian Peters now and ask him to look at this forum,you may well get a better deal when he see,s this.
Paul js.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by pauljs_eng on Sun Feb 17 16:35:39 2002 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

This seems a terrible tale of woe and really unbelievable considering the money you have spent. Have you consulted a lawyor as to whether the boat can still be rejected under the sale of Goods act or perhaps its now too late? Any comments (jfm?)
Also, if anyone from Peters is lurking, perhaps you should give your side of the story

 

[byron]

The lesson being... next time by a Broom

ô¿ô

 

[Guest]

More about Peters

Reminds me of tale from previous owner of my boat, he bought Fairline Corniche from them many years ago, now not on same scale as this post but none the less, here goes, bought boat from them as a trade in not brokerage so covered by sale of goods act etc, had boat valeted engines serviced etc to get phone call to say that both engines needing heads off big problems, it,s going to cost you this much mr?????, so he says well you had better take the boat back then, saga went on so he gets other engineers to look at boat to discover nothing wrong at all, they were just trying to get some more money out of him.

Paul js.

 

[DavidJ]

I've just bought a new Sealine S37 from Sealine Sales Southampton and there have been a few unexpected, mainly cosmetic problems, but I must say how promptly the problems have been sorted. Non of my requests (and I am fussy) have been questioned.
I did hold back payment for a few days but it had little effect on the progress of problem resolution which has continued after payment.
Top marks for Sealine I say
David

 

[miket]

A few years ago I sold a 7 year old Turbo 36 through B A Peters (Chichester). Not impressed.

They were not able to provide a mooring on their sales pontoon, over the 6 months it took to sell. Apart from taking the occasional (very occasional) prospective buyer to view, they did nothing. I got the distinct impression that they wer'nt really interested in brokerage boats, just new boat sales. Obviously not, as our friend here has found out to his cost.

They did eventually sell it.........to a friend of a friend of mine!!!
I could have sidelined Peters and done the deal direct but felt that was wrong. Naive or what?!!

On the plus side, I did find Peters Shipyard very helpful and efficient.

 

[jfm]

Juerg:

Sorry to hear your problems.

I think the problems on your boat are typical of Fairline. I hear many stories of people taking delivery of boats that need 10 or 20 things fixing. Our 1999 Phantom 42 needed similar, including complete rewire of bowthruster for example, took ages to get them all done

IMHO Fairline need to work hard on their build quality. They are built by non-boaters, who have little interest or passion for the product. They have strict timing procedures in the factory, so a team of fitters has to finish their jobs in a certain time else they do not get their productivity £££ bonus. This creates lots of their warranty problems imho. I have visited the factory and lunched with the manufacturing director BTW. In contrast, I have visited the Leopard factory twice, where tcm's new boat is being built, and the passion of the boatbuilders and their love of the product is tangible. When you compliment them on, say, a fantastic dashboard that they just built, they feel really proud and smile warmly. I'm not getting sentimental here, I really mean that the Italians care, whereas Fairline are just production line operatives.

I have found Peters generally ok, but a bit slow. All I can think is that anyone buying new needs to allow at least one month in Chichester for the faults to be fixed

As for legals, you bought your boat under English law I suspect. I do not think you can hand it back for full refund. On a complex £500,000 product there has to be much more wrong than that. But you have a warranty, which you should read to see what to do. It will not mention time, but English law will require that they must fix the faults within a "reasonable" time else they are liable to you for your costs. I would think you should claim from them your mooring costs in Cala D'Or for everthing except say the first 2 weeks.

As for the cost of multiple trips Mahon to Cala D'Or, you should ask for compensation but as a matter of English law it is generally the responsibility of the customer to deliver the product to the service point nominated by the seller, so you will struggle to get much compensation if it comes to a legal fight imho. But you should still ask

Good luck though, sorry if some of the above sounds negative, it is not meant to be, it's just how it is

 

[Scubadoo]

Total Opposite....

I had the total opposite to your experience with Sealine, some jobs took along time to get fixed - however they did fix most things.

I think Fairline and Sealine and many others are all the same on this score, some good & some bad experiences.

Then we have Volvo Penta which is another outfit of poor customer service.

RM.

 

[tcm]

I posted earlier, but the post was suspended by the powers that be. Here then a run down of (some) of my own problems with a new fairline targa 48 over four years.

"We've found 72 faults and have fixed fifty of them so far" said the delievery crew triumphantly on day one.

In the first year the engines went rusty because one of the faults that nobody found was fine spray leak on the primaries, not dousing the engines every time they ran, but just giving them enough salt to oxidise.

On only one day out of four years the whole thing worked. I spent a large amount of time fixing the boat

In an early channel swell the internal aircon pipes fell off and I had to get behind the furniture, though not for the last time.

The fairline-supplied £10k whittal passarelle never relaibly worked, after two years requiring a manual heave out and in. "They're always dodgy, these things" said the dealer "one of them snapped clan in half!".

On a longer trip, I found myself getting up quietly in the early morning to fix the problems from the previous day because my kids were laughing at me "your boat always needs fixing, dad, what's gone wrong now?" Loads of shear pins in the bowthruster went so I could eventually fit a new one inside four minutes, shortest lasted just a day!

One rebuild of the anchor deck switch per season . The switchgear on the anchor lasted one season .

The boat is noisy, because failrine design teams don't really understand noise control. they fit noise-deadened pads here and there, but these fall off. The hatches also leak. Eventually, after a few dozen model,s they fitted two catches on the engine hatch, but the moulding never mated properly. I soundproofed all the inside upper engine area, massive improvement, cost 60 quid in materials retail.

Three internal doors fell off on a f6 in the channel. Over winter in the med, we found that the doors foul each other and made a long horizontal scrape mark across the face of the nice gloss cherry door at the end of the saloon. I fitted a restictor to stop the WC door swinging so far back, but too late to save the cherry door.

The grundig tv never had anything like decent reception so I replaced it with a vhs player.

After several attempts by peters/peters dealer, I did at least three rebuilds of the front shower cubicle which falls off its mounts. In another boat, a woman was trapped inside the shower for over two hours. The swivelling circular shower "curtain door " is made of too-heavy 8-10mm perspex, and the new t52 is the same.

Warped teak shower trays needed grinding/packing. All but one of the ceiling panels fell out over four years. The forward shower silicon mastic sealant fails, and is only superficial, so the water leaks into the saloon and rotted the carpet, so i replaced all that too.

Two cockpit seats needed remaking because the staples were applied in a single line, causing a line of weakness for the internal panel to snap in half at the slightest pressure. I found that fairline used non-stainless staples for cockpit seating, so rust marks come through to clothing.

The electric barbecue isn't marinised and needed replacement after two years. Internally, the "fitted" fridge and microwave actually danced around their shelves - not fixed. The autopilot seems too sensitive to battery voltage - always dropping to standby if not charged fully the night before.

Large area canopy too big for screw-in (not bolted) studs to grp around the rear camper top.

WC screws went rusty requiring to be replaced with stainless . The hopeless shower pump was eventually discarded after several rebuilds to exhaust direct to forward bilge pump.

Lightly chromed light switch surrounds tarnish badly in the uk.

On the t48, the access to front deck is via lethal step out of cockpit with high gloss flat grp, caused man overboard in plymouth, and all examples up until at least #88 stayed that way despite letter to fairline.

Fourth hot water heating element seemed to work.

Windscreen wipers packed in after one seasons. Horn packed in after one season. The sea/holdingtank discharge labels were attahced wrong way around, with predictable nasty result.

The too-weak windscreen was solved with a fairline retrofit strengthening piece after whole windscreen and side windows were swept by a wave in another example of same boat.

The engine bilge was constantly wet, as the central part holds 12" of water before it escapes to reach a bilge pump, so I fitted an extra bilge pump.

A leak through a port window when it rained required rebuild of all port cabin furniture.

Over-drilled holes and inadequate design around aft cabin bed upholstered surrounds mean that these soon fall off if someone leans/sleeps on them. The heavy grp mouldings over the WC's have hinges far too weak. The port side WC leaked a little from day one. Three years later I paid for it to be totally refitted, with a new WC, as the exhaust pipe had snapped during the initial build, but was ignored. The saloon aircon unit packed in but I left it and ordered another boat.

I recommend that all \Fairline workers apply for a job at Princess to learn how to build/design things so that they'll survive Plymouth harbour at least. Under no circumstances apply for a job at any Italian yard, because they might laugh when you fit hinges with 3/8" slot screws which fall out of the door frames, or non-stainless fasteners in the bilge.

Oneover-engineered aspect at least - Fairline fit so much double-sided tape to the saloon carpet (under which are lots of inspection hatches) that although lots of other things may fall off a targa 48 if it ever turns upside down, the carpet stays firmly attached.

Lots more - this is all I could think of. I should feel lucky because some other t48 owners settled with the factory "because the boat simply couldn't do more than 25 knots".

But other than that, it was great! Such a pity that such great looking boats are not very well put together, and have poor design detailing. Anyone found a set of chess pieces that fits the too-small inlaid chessboard in a fairline targa 52? Ah well.

 

[tcm]

Re: oh and ...

Get an independent surveyor to survey the boat after 11months, before the warranty expires. Worth the 400 quid or whatever, giving you a nice document to beat them over the head with, legally or otherwise. Worked for me.

 

[Guest]

Sorry for not coming back earlier, I'm working hard.


When I startet this chat I was wondering who would reply and what. I have the impression that most owners fear the fist of Peters in their neck. Could it be that they are afraid loosing the last bit of support?
I met Fairline/Peters customers in Cascais, Gibraltar and Benalmadena and every single men or woman told me about their bad experiences with Peters. A 60 year old real English gentleman told me in Gibraltar: "Their was a time when Peters was a MEN, today it's just a name!" That was the owner of an Squadron 43. Isn't that frustrating Brian Peters? What a shame! I would serve my staff badly hot tea - and Mr Peters? Others were just shouting about the extremly unreliable after sales service. I heard from seven Fairline's and a Rodman's owner just in Mallorca who are angry about the awful service of Peters. OK, it is possible though not realistic that I met all of those unhappy Peters customer at once - where is your courage? It is useless to abuse just behind the wall.

Last October, once more, I went to the Cala D'Or office when Pam notified to an older Squadron owner the mooring cost for 2002. He was complaining about the ever increasing prices - we are talking about over 20'000 Euro in 2001 for a 16m berth - becoming more and more angry and told her with all his English most friendly authority: "This is the most expensive place in the Med; even Monaco is cheaper!" "No" Pam said smiling "this is not true. But we increased the price only once this year - last year we did it twice. That is fair enough." I mean - that was so degrading! I really like Pam but that was too rude. But instead of: "OK, herewith I terminate my contract!" he just made "mmhh" and went off.

Gentlemen please - it doesn't work like that! These guys are laughing about us. Of course they listen very attentive what you are saying but as soon you left, back to usual business - sell it and forget it. I hope to hear you now and I want to hear the press. I'm a MBY reader for over a year and I appreciate their professional analysis of bits and pieces and all those brilliant comments, but as a reader I can also expect that journalists and editors are seriously investigating the obviously horrible grievances in customer service of some companies. Fairline and Peters are proclaiming to be the best, the biggest and the greatest, doing this and that better then the others. For this reason I bought that Squadron 52, a 520.000£ boat with all the Extras ex VAT. "More than Skin Deep", "Boats Borne of Pride", "Our Craft Builds Your Pride", "Network of Integrity" .... autsch!

jfm: I appreciate the complexity of a boat like Namu but because of Fairline's commitment to perfection they proclaimed I bought a Fairline and not a another one.

"The Squadron range epitomises Fairline's dedication to exellence. As always, our criterion was to create the very best boats in their class, and again we belive we have succeeded. Beyond their sheer majesty and grace lies an integrity that runs as deep as the ocean itself. The superlative design, quality of components and materials, and superb craftsmanship culminate in a range of boats of unquestionable splendor. This hand-build resplendence complemented by practicality, makes the Squadron the choice of the owner who instinctively appreciates outer beauty with inner strength - the true connoisseur."

Wow.... sounds good, doesn't it. I took more then fifty pictures in my exellent boat showing the exact opposite of the above - ergo they cheated me out! And you? Peters PLC are the world's biggest Fairline distributor. Their slogan is: "Peters - Putting customers first!"
I wrote many emails to Peters PLC but they never answer really. On February 8th I wrote to the General Manager Brian Shell in my language, German, as I thought they don't understand my Swiss English. I expected that Europe's biggest leissure boat distributor's General Manager should at least understand the most common European languages. All Swiss children have to learn German, French and English at school, why not Brian Shell. Who knows, he didn't answer yet.

I would like to see now hundreds of replies -also from Kim Hollamby, Associate Publisher ybw.com?


Please accept my apologizes for my bad English, I could do it much better in German!

 

[tcm]

calm down

Ok!

Peters are the seller. You have some problmes with the boat, and they are perhaps not very good at after sales. Every week or even every day, fax them a list of the problems. Some of the problems may seem big to you. Do try to enjoy your boat. It is a shame that they do not meet their promises always. I suggest that if the problems are serious you get a surveyor to list and follow the problems until they are solved.

........Nonetheless, I would be somewhat concerned if someone wrote me a complaining letter in German. What did you say?

Myself, I always find myself reaching a Nuremburg crescendo whenever I read something out aloud in German. My wife once offered to take me for a drive, as I was so worked up. I sat in the back of her Mercedes convertible as we drove around Hampstead, but we came back via Golders Green with motorcycle outriders, and it didn't really calm me down very much at all.

 

[oldgit]

Re: calm down

On David Pascos site he made the comment again and again that just because the boat you are buying cost a great deal of money it does not means that you will buy your way out of problems.You just get bigger more expensive ones.I would assume that if i was in a position to spend this sort of money I would be getting a perfect boat but it is not so.The greater complexity of the larger boat makes for more things to go wrong so it appears that what ever end of the market you are buying problems do happpen...We have all felt b........dy furious when our new toy be it rowing boat or superboat won,t go.

 

[petem]

Languages

I'm afraid the English don't really do languages. We're a bit lazy that way. The rest of the world has an obvious second language to learn, i.e. English, whereas we don't. I mean what is the point of us learning French or German or Swiss when all French, Germans and Swiss can speak English.

Agree with you about Fairlines though. Mine probably had about 80 (minor) faults but as long they weren't stopping me going out I didn't let it get me down.

 

[petem]

The fault I was most annoyed about was a very short mast for the anchor/steaming lights. With the hood up the lights were invisible from the front. I notified the dealer and asked for a new mast. The best they would offer was to have it sent off to be lengthened (which they never got round to doing).

Now, to my mind safety issues like this should treated as a recall and all previous Targa's with the same problem should have the modification retrofitted. Did they care? No.

 

[Scubadoo]

Crikey TCM, I'll stop complaining about my problems with Sealine and Volvo. At least we have one thing in common Rusty engines!

It would appear to me that Fairline and Sealine seem to share the same work force. Out of interest and a person with some experience of different type of boats, what do you think of Sunseeker would you say they are the same as Fairline etc in build fitout or are all British boats (except Broom) this bad.

RM.

 

[tcm]

Re: sunseeker

massive generalisation, but I do feel that sunseeker is successful in attracting the not-very boater type. So I don't think that their boats (in general) get as much of a biffing.

However, as far as I hear (anecdotal) they do seem to rush round more postsales for people esp at the level that Juerg is taking about. The more voluminous fairlines have made a rod for their own back with more storage space etc. which is more boaty. There are stories of sunseeekr fixy place that sorted out a blokes engine - his *car* engine. Think a lot depends on who actually sells you the boat - do they give a monkey's etc. Think the rest depends on the manuf's own attitudes. get them both right and it'll be a fab boat.

But other do sniff at the sunseekers leaking thru windows at sea, not everything tickety boo. I beleiev that the engineering is better, simply from hearing the boats at speed being relatively quiet, which isn't easy.

Interestingly, Juerg is not compaining about the faults -he's complaining about the fact that they weren't fixed. I tghink that sunseeker are better than Failine at this after sales stuff. Well, they couldn't be much worse if a new Fairline boat has been sitting there in calad'or and they've done sod all. I'd have gone raving mad. Oh yes, i remeber now, I DID go raving mad. Lots of times.