Extendable anchor rodes - best practice?

[webcraft]

Just bought a 50m length of octoplait with a view to splicing it to 10m chain and so making up a rode for our 3rd anchor, a 15Kg CQR clone which would only be used 'in extremis'. What I would like to do is have some way of making this rode multi-purpose so it could be joined either to the kedge rode (30m warp + 10m chain) to make a 100m rode, or joined to the main anchor rode (30m chain, 30m warp) at the bitter end to give a much longer bower rode when anchoring in normal conditions but in deep water.

The obvious method seems eyes in the bitter ends of the various warps . . . but should these be hard or soft eyes, and how much strength would be lost by shackling two lengths of rode end to end like this?

Does anyone else have a swappable joinable anchor rode system on their boat, and how do they do it?


(PS - longer permanent bower rode is not an option unless I extend the anchor locker . . . and anyway 60m is adequate for 99% of anchoring situations in home waters).

- Nick

 

[Talbot]

I know one person who has two long bits of chain seperated by 50m or more of octo. This is joined permanently as one continuous cable, and he has an anchor secured at each end. This enables him to select a double anchor in shallow water or by removal of one anchor and re-attaching to the other anchor with 5m of chain, he has a series anchor system suitable for much deeper water.

 

[jerryat]

Hi webcraft,

I also keep a 50 metre length of 16mm multiplait for use with various anchors (other than the bower which has it's own 50m length spliced to the chain) and have spliced a stainless steel eye into one end. This allows us shackle it onto the chain, permanently fitted to the 'reserve' anchors, at any time.

It's also been used for towing another yacht, as a stern warp to rocks (with chain loop) in the Med. and a host of other situations. Well worth keeping yours 'flexible' if you see what I mean!!!

Cheers Jerry

 

[srm]

Hi,

Chain cables of various lengths, 40m on main cable and 20m on second and third, each with spliced multiplait tails, plus an assortment of nylon ropes. If I need to extend any of them use a double sheet bend to add more rope to bitter end. Double sheet bend holds under enormous load and is easy to undo afterwards.

Made up about 200 metres on one occasion to reach the shore and haul an 11 ton boat off the rocks, worked fine.

Sean

 

[Krusty]

Best practice? Dont know about that, but over the years we have developed a versatile ground tackle system. Having experienced a parted shackle, the boat driven ashore and lucky to escape damage, we have NO shackles in the system. We use 'Kongs' (galv. anchor-connectors) instead; stronger and passing easily over a bow roller; more expensive than shackles but worth every £. We have 8mm chain to each anchor, Octoplait nylon with hard-eye splices, (well 'served' with cord while under load between winches) and another length of 10mm chain: this can be used to extend the anchor chain for extra metal on the bottom, or added to the inboard end of a rope rode and paid out, acting like an 'angel', when anchoring deep. This way, we can have plenty of chain out in deep water, but do not have to haul it all up in one long 'drop'. We can anchor in up to 40m, and do not use a windlass.

 

[scarlett]

Re: CQR Clone

"a 15Kg CQR clone which would only be used 'in extremis'."

I sounds a bit back to front. My Plastimo copy CQR was useless except as mud weight. Very unreliable. Would you like to explain further.

 

[John_Clarke]

Sean - I agree with you, rope tail on chain works well - I use the same method.

 

[webcraft]

Re: CQR Clone -why??

Was the only anchor on the boat when we got it . . . 15kg is pretty heavy for a 2.3 ton boat, and v. difficult to deploy (hinge, doesn't sit on bow roller so on chocks etc)

Replaced with 10kg Spade as main bower, 10kg Britanny as kedge, CQR kept in locker as third anchor. Maybe it's just dead weight, but I don't think so . . .

- Nick

 

[webcraft]

Re: Hard Eyes

This sounds like the way to go . . .

How do you splice a hard eye into octoplait then??

And is there any significant reduction in strength?

- Nick

 

[machurley22]

Re: Hard Eyes

With an eye splice and a thimble - no?

Dave

 

[webcraft]

Re: Eye splice and thimble

Easy for you to say . . .

I can follow Jimmy's diagram, but how do you get the hard eye to stay in?

- Nick

 

[webcraft]

Or . . . a short bit of chain?

What about a rope/chain splice with 2m of chain at each end?

- Nick

 

[machurley22]

Re: Eye splice and thimble

[ QUOTE ]
Easy for you to say . . .

[/ QUOTE ]
Indeed.

I did manage the chain splice but the eye splice looks a bit scary. To be honest I was reluctant to put the link up since I was sure you'd already be aware of it and it didn't mention the use of a hard eye but went ahead anyway in the hope that I'd learn something from your response!

Is there some reason why an appropriately sized thimble doesn't work in octoplait?

Dave

 

[Mirelle]

Footnote on hard eye splices in rope that may come under heavy load

This applies PARTICULARLY to nylon rope, of any construction.

Under heavy load a thimble will rotate out of the splice and be useless.

So, the recommended procedure is to seize the eye in, with seizings on each leg.

The best practice is to use circular thimbles, as they are quite a bit stronger, but these are not often available.

It goes without saying that any shackles used should be to BS 3032 - which most galvanised shackles that you find in you chandlers are NOT! Easy to spot those that are not - the pin of a BS 3032 shackle is 3mm thicker than the bow, in all sizes. You can use a good quality stainless one if you are made of money.

One supplier of BS3032 shackles is here

 

[srm]

Re: Footnote on hard eye splices in rope that may come under heavy load

Keeping a hard eye in Multiplait - you need to measure the eye carefully and make it just the right length so that the first tucks pull the rope eye down into the thimble. Firm whippings around both sides of the eye are essential. I have hard eyes on my marina mooring lines where I can see them, but would not use them underwater.
I got very close to loosing some very expensive oceanographic equipment due to a hard eye in a low stretch rope. The eye splice had extended under load and on recovery the hard eye had rotated through 90 degrees and partly opened with the open edges cutting into the rope of the spliced eye. The thought of that happening to an anchor warp that is constantly moving does not bear thinking about.
My rope tails to anchor chains are all spliced directly into the chain, then the splice served with self amalgamating tape. This shrinks over the splice and also takes a fair bit of abrassion, so it needs replacing from time to time.
Not sure if this is 'best practice' but its one that I am happy to sleep with.

Sean

 

[webcraft]

Re: Footnote on hard eye splices in rope that may come under heavy load

So . . .

If hard eyes in multiplait are a bit of a nightmare, what about a short length of chain spliced to each end which can then be shackled to extend the anchor rode as required?

- Nick

 

[NigeCh]

Question : WHY? (One Two ... Nine Ten...)

What are you really trying to do? You say this is for your 3rd anchor .... and only to be used in extremis (attached to a 15 kg CQR for an in extremis situation plus your other 2 whatever they are already (hopefully) set .... ) ....

Pull the other leg ... With respect you're waffling just like a dog trying to lift its leg in a treeless snowfield ...

Anchoring in extremis is understanding forces and how the elemental forces interact (It's all a set of nursey rhymes ... One two buckle my shoe .... ) and there is nothing much more to it ... Three four lock the Door .......

On a scale of 1 to 10 (10 being the worst) The absolute anchoring failure has to be Bernard Moitissier's cock up (10) .... Miralbella V's most recent cock up comes well down the list ie about 3 ....(caused by ??? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif .... or could that be described as a lack or understanding of basic forces by the RYA and how their examiners haven't a clue about how to even set an anchor ???? /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif )

Nine Ten a big fat Hen ....

 

[webcraft]

Re: Question : WHY? (don\'t you read posts more carefully . . .)

No . . .

At the moment the third anchor has no rode, so I need one.

It won't be used very often, so it would be sensible to be able to use this new bit of kit in other ways, such as to extend the main bower rode for anchoring in deeper water on odd occasions.

So - I need to be able to join this new rode to either of the existing rodes or to the third anchor as required, or maybe use it sometimes as a line ashore.

Therefore I need a sensible connection system.

So - which bit of that don't you understand? Have you been sniffing paint?

- Nick

 

[BrendanChandler]

Konks

<font color="blue"> What is a Kong please?

It seems that use of hard eyes in octoplait is unsafe. I am surprised that some of the well known names in ropes etc are offering octoplait for sale with hard eyes.

Brendan </font>

 

[BrendanChandler]

Kong? What\'s a Kong? Oh God, I just fed them an opening

<font color="blue">
What is a Kong please?

It seems that use of hard eyes in octoplait is unsafe. I am surprised that some of the well known names in ropes etc are offering octoplait for sale with hard eyes.

Brendan

</font>