'Expert' opnion requested re cruising boat handicap for gentlemenly race.

[npf1]

This should be fun ...

A fellow forumite and I, both who have fat heavy cruising boats, are contemplating a channel crossing but, being alpha males, want to make it a race (of sorts).

So we need your guidance – should there be a handicap or not? If so, what?

Boat details are:

Moody 54 - fin keel sloop
LWL 46.1 ft
Draft 7.5 ft
Beam 15.9ft
Displacement 20 tons
Sail area 1700 sq ft

Skookum 53 - Long keel ketch
LWL 45.1 ft
Draft 7.25 ft
Beam 15.5 ft
Displacement 30 tons
Sail area 1530 sq ft (inc mizzen)

Discuss …

Thanks in advance.

 

[Dockhead]

LOL. Yes, and we need two handicaps -- how many minutes or hours of head start for the slower boat, if anyone thinks there is one; and what handicap to impose for minutes or hours of motoring.

This being a "gentlemanly" race, the handicap for motoring should not be prohibitive, lest we miss cocktail hour in Cherbourg, which would be most ungentlemanly . . .

 

[ChrisE]

1 hour deducted from crossing time per metric tonne of Fray Bentos carried?

 

[Dockhead]

Forgot to mention the route -- Hamble to Cherbourg, about 80 nautical miles, including 60 from Needles to C-bourg, and 20 miles of getting out of the Solent.

 

[flaming]

I would guestimate the Moody to be in the region of 10-15% quicker - slightly more in light winds and upwind, slightly less in a strong wind reach.

The penalties for motoring should be applied in the form of rounds in the bar on arrival.

 

[Malo37]

Portsmouth yardstick ?

 

[npf1]

eating Fray Bentos surely means disqualification. That is, unless it's washed down with a decent dram.

I will need to get close by and to windward for breakfast time though, then the bacon aromas can defocus the opposition.

 

[gardenshed]

use this site and search a) boats by type (moody 54 is included) andthen b) from the type/name, search and get the handicap. The site will also explain the thinking behind the cyca handicap system and how to use it.
http://www.cyca-online.org.uk/handicaps.asp#manualLink

moody 54 10.5 mins per hour
cant find a Skookum but you may find something similar.

Alternatively, pay the minimal fee, send in the details and you will get a handicap that is ideal for your use.
always something to blame when you lose and its the handicap of course, not your skills..........

 

[Pinnacle]

Ooooooooooh......when is this going to take place? I would like to come and watch!

 

[ianat182]

How about an owner prediction of arrival time under sail alone, with penalty minutes for time of engine use, and for fun add 1 minute for each year of the skipper only, or the combined crews age.

Trophy- 'The Tortoise and the Hare Trophy' to be challenged for annually for any destination!


ianat182

 

[Lakesailor]

Did you ever do navigational rallies? The sight of half a dozen cars inching towards a control in the dead of night, desperate not to clock in early. It rather spoils the idea of a race.

 

[DJE]

I think the normal formula in these events is rating = square root of LWL multiplied by average age of crew!

 

[Dockhead]

How about an owner prediction of arrival time under sail alone, with penalty minutes for time of engine use, and for fun add 1 minute for each year of the skipper only, or the combined crews age.

Trophy- 'The Tortoise and the Hare Trophy' to be challenged for annually for any destination!


ianat182

That sounds like fun!

 

[awol]

I wouldn't bother with handicaps - they will just lead to discussion as to their fairness or otherwise. Why not start simultaneously with both crews at a fixed shore based point, say a bar, and finish in a predetermined bar or restaurant on the other side, the 2nd to arrive picking up the tab. No penalty for motoring (on land or at sea). Any vessel receiving 5 hoots (or more) from a 3rd party vessel is automatically disqualified!

 

[Dockhead]

Ah, a Le Mans start, eh? Also sounds like fun. Hmm, so many fun ways to do this . . .

 

[Tidewaiter2]

How about an owner prediction of arrival time under sail alone, with penalty minutes for time of engine use, and for fun add 1 minute for each year of the skipper only, or the combined crews age.

Trophy- 'The Tortoise and the Hare Trophy' to be challenged for annually for any destination!


ianat182

Reduce handicap by 10 for every anchor of equal weight carried and by 10 for evey 10m of 10mm chain, 8 for 8mm etc.
Add to PY if lighter anchors, chain, all rode carried, and for every dozen of sloe gin, port, malt unconsumed by end of arrival bash
I case thereof penalty for excessive fore sail changing,persistent spinny/chute work.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

If you give all your boats details to this site they will work out a trial PY handicap for you. You need to make a donation ( being a Yorkshireman I gave them a generous £5) and TBH it did take a little while to come through, but their system seems quite a good one.

 

[estarzinger]

So we need your guidance – should there be a handicap or not? If so, what?

Moody 54 - fin keel sloop

Skookum 53 - Long keel ketch

Definitely need a handicap. Moody 8.5% faster.

Quick and dirty formula: IMS rated speed in knots = 2.62 + 0.066*SA/D ratio + 0.051*LWL in feet. Discussion at 200 mile days

Hopefully the Skookum has mizzen staysails.

In fact, in the real world, probably the better sailor will win and the boat differences will not be important.

 

[npf1]

Definitely need a handicap. Moody 8.5% faster.

Hopefully the Skookum has mizzen staysails.
.

Yep, got a mizzen staysail, but for a Needles to Cherbourg crossing in a prevailing SWerly, its probably only going to get an outing on the return leg.

mmm... perhaps need to race back too.

 

[nimbusgb]

I wouldn't bother with handicaps - they will just lead to discussion as to their fairness or otherwise. Why not start simultaneously with both crews at a fixed shore based point, say a bar, and finish in a predetermined bar or restaurant on the other side, the 2nd to arrive picking up the tab. No penalty for motoring (on land or at sea). Any vessel receiving 5 hoots (or more) from a 3rd party vessel is automatically disqualified!

Hmmm. Ok lads they got there first ........ lets bu$$er off back to the original pub and buy twice as much beer for ourselves.