Expensive Hindsight

[Fin]

Having just bought our first boat we're quickly learning that there are expensive and cheap ways to achieve the same results! Whats the biggest money saving top tip learnt from hard experience? (short of not buying the boat!)

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[AuntyRinum]

Where possible, buy from caravan shops rather than chandlers.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Omatako]

Agree wholeheartedly with BrettH.

Chandlers live under the misconception that all boatowners are rich.

Buy from hardware stores and camping shops, expecially things like stainless fasteners, adhesives, sealers, etc. Also for fittings, talk to good quality fabricators. I have had a number of really professional quality items manufactured for a lot less than the swindlery (oops sorry, chandelry), wanted for them.

Also where possible, buy on the net direct from the manufacturer. Many have on-line shops with deals.




<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[muchy_]

Do as much of the work as possible yourself.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[William_H]

Avoid the urge to buy electronics and where possible use portable electronics and take them off the boat when not in use. Do everything yourself and enjoy it all. Especially don;t be tempted to buy wind speed ditrection insttruments or paddle wheel log get a handheld GPS regards will

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Guest]

Food for thought ....

You hear from many quarters that you need X, X, and X .... it's funny that not so long ago we used to go boating on a lot less gear !!
So don't get led up the path into the local Chandlers for all and sundry to a) overload the boat, b) empty the wallet. Look at all your needs carefully and sensibly ..... is it necessary to have all that electronic wizardry for pottering about the solent or similar ? Do you really need a full singing and dancing DSC VHF, do you really need all that Chart plotting and gizmo stuff ??????

Its as expensive as you make it .... and it can be bottomless if you are not careful. I have wish-lists for my boats, but resist with a cold vengeance and try not to visit chandlers at all !!! I buy all sorts from Camping Shops - often the item is same but 're-labeled'- I haggle with shops / stalls / anyone that has something that I consider I need .... I even haggled in Sainsbury's ..... AND GOT IT !!! (Trick is to ask for the Floor Manager !!)

If you have a palace of a boat - ok you have all the latest gadgetry etc. etc. If like me you have a limited budget and a modest boat - you keep your money RIGHT in your pocket and don't let anyone convince you to part with it !!!!

Another postee has said forget paddle wheel log etc. I don't agree, but do agree that a GPS can be a wise buy .... particulrly if its a handheld with connector cables to other biots and bobs.
There are various economic alternatives to fancy displays and instrument clusters ..... eg - my Echo Sounder and Speed log is a combined Echopilot job at just over 100 quid .... what else do I need apart from a reasonable compass .... another 50 ? and a GPS ...... oh and a couple of charts of the area I sail. Spend the rest on a few cushions for the cockpit to keep your a...e from sitting on hard GRP etc. !!!!

Finally - do as much as you can yourself ..... marine bills have a multiplication factor built in !!!!!

Good luck and welcome to the wonderful world of boats !!


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
So WHAT does the EU really stand for ????/forums/images/icons/cool.gif

 

[Manos_Greece]

Re: Food for thought ....

Contrary to other fellows here, I would suggest not to buy cheap. This in terms of quality. Every time I have bought the cheap alternative, I have replace it after a year or two due to failure since you know sea is not a friendly environment. I'm also on a limited budget and I always do everything on my boat alone, since every time I have asked a "specialist" to fix something he has also damage one or two other things. So I prefer to learn to fix everything alone and be self sufficient even if I have to destroy something in the proccess of learning and pay it again.

<hr width=100% size=1>Manos From Greece
S/Y Efaki, Mirage 28
www.sailingboatefaki.gr

 

[Guest]

Re: Food for thought ....

Pay cheap - Pay twice...... is an old saying and I agree that you should buy the best you can afford.
If you read carefully, no disrespect here .... you will see that I wrote .... items 're-labeled' .

Example is hatch stays. You can find identical items in a caravan shop at half the price .... they use them as window stays !!! Another is 12V lights, 12V water systems etc. etc.
It is also possible to find BETTER more suitable items in the bigger caravan shops for a few areas on the boat ..... likewise Car accessory shops ...... Battery trickle solar chargers, 5W with LED indicators, connectors etc. - 25 quid ...... how much for chandlers version ??????


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
So WHAT does the EU really stand for ????/forums/images/icons/cool.gif

 

[graham]

I think the secret is to not buy too large a boat.Every 5 foot of extra boat length seems to double the running costs.

If you think you can afford a 35 footer go for a 30 footer.That way you can spend less time earning the money to maintain it and more time sailing.

Also I agree with the posts that advise not buying all the latest gadgetry.Firstly its expensive and secondly most of it is not neccesary.

The only electronics that I think are vital to safe navigation is a log and an echo sounder.With those two a good steering compass and hand bearing compass you can do everything you need for coastal sailing.

A GPS is certainly nice but a £100 handheld gives the same position as a £500 one .

Antifoul is another area ranging between £25 and £100 a tin It seems from my observations that most boats kept in the same harbour get similar fouling whatever gets used.Why not try some cheap stuff such as XM or Flag and if its OK after a season stick with it.

Boat Jumbles... Ifind these excellent for rope (root through the bargain bins at Jimmy Greens and other chandlers)Your new Genoa sheets may be lying in there at half price.But dont get carried away and buy ANYTHING at a jumble that you dont need.Also there are a lot of dodgy characters with stalls so be wary.Personally I wouldnt buy secondhand electronics but I am sure people do get bargains.

I agree with not buying cheap quality kit.But an end of line item or base model from a good manufacturer is the way to go.

Often the berth or mooring is the biggest outlay.Do you need a marina berth or are there swinging moorings nearby available?
In some places check out the yacht clubs ,you may save more than the cost of membership with a yacht club mooring and make new friends in the process.


Best wishes from another shoe string yachtsman.

 

[Will_M]

I think everyone has a budget of some size, some larger, others smaller...

But, I think its all relative; after all you have to shop well within the limit that SWMBO has allowed!!!!

On a more serious note, as nigel_luther says.. Pay Cheap - Pay Twice

Don’t always believe you have saved some folding when you pick-up that 'deal' from some back street store, it may look the same; it might very well be stainless steel.

The reality often is though, that the stainless is cheapy A2 or some crap from the States and its design is not intended to go afloat!!

You get the idea.


<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[brianhumber]

I would advise :
Set a budget and keep to it
Do you need a marina or would a swinging one suffice?
Buy quality but avoid marine labels
Never scrimp or put off buying safety items
Do your own maintenance
Increase your excess on insurance
Above all enjoy your sailing - you only get one life.


<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Gordonmc]

Raid the skips.

Seriously... half the "not quite necessity" items on my boat have been recovered from the marina bins, mended and pressed into service. These include aboarding ladder, lengths of plastic hose to stop chaff on mooring lines, old sheets for mooring lines, old dodgers (which make good fender guards) and odds & sods of stainless steel tubing.
I am constantly amazed by the amount of repairable kit that is thrown away. The only problem is getting hands on it before the other theiving gits.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[ships_parrot]

Avoid excessive electronics - many you don't need, none like salty water - there's no such thing as waterproof where plugs and buttons are involved!
Spend money on keeping the boat waterproof, particularly the bottom bit e.g. good skin fittings and seacocks (personally I prefer to use bronze ones)...
Think 'outside the box' where boat jumbles are concerned, e.g. buy two broken tiller extensions at the jumble for £10 and cannibalise the one to fix the other. Then feel really smug when you see them at the boat show for £100...

Do the work yourself - have a boat small enough that you can. Saves you lots, you know it's been done properly, and you'll know how everything works..

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Mirelle]

Best money saver - if you plan to keep the boat for more than a season, a good quality, well fitted, winter cover, ridge pole and A frames. This will save you hours and hours of work and hundreds of pounds spent on polish, paint, varnish and sundry gloops. Most wear and tear to boats happens in the winter when they are laid up.

Put your halyards and warps in the washing machine each winter.

Avoid electronics.

Unless you really are going to double Cape Horn, don't buy oilskins that are fit for that - buy oilskins that are fit for going round the bay in. Buy the safety gear that you need, not the safety gear that Ellen McArthur needs.

Good quality secondhand gear can be found. The operative word is "good quality". A Sestrel compass, for instance, is probably better than a new cheap one.

When buying things, ask around, locally, and consider that ten miles in the car can save ten pounds. For example, the price of a very common service part for my engine differs by ten pounds between two equally large and well known firms of marine engineers, ten miles apart.

Above all, do not behave like a magpie in chandlers, wandering round picking up shiny little objects. Unlike the magpie, you pay for them!

<hr width=100% size=1>Que scais-je?

 

[Fin]

Fantastic top tips, just what this forum is for, thanks very much guys.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Jools_of_Top_Cat]

I have to say I have been fairly dismayed at the anti electronics advice put forward. I bought a nice chartplotter 2 years ago and love it. I can navigate off paper charts and carry charts for all areas I have sailed, they may be a larger scale in some instances than I would have carried before the plotter.

When sailing longer distances, for example over to Ireland I pllotted my course on the paper charts and did not really refer to the plotter until a few miles of the distination. But for weekend port hopping the plotter comes into its own, it allows faster changes to destination, easier course plotting and generally a more relaxed weekend sailing. If it fails I have enough of an idea of position to move quickly back to paper charts.

My wind direction makes it easier for my crew to steer to wind and gives an indication to me quickly from the repeater below how she is steering, handy when I am snoozing in the saloon.

My laptop allows me to get up to date tide and weather information when on board, this means I can wake up and download a variety of weather info not having to wait for out of date broadcasts from CG. Walking up pontoons to the club for weather info is not an option. The same with HF radio broadcasts.

I am all for old school navigation and information gathering, but come on, the facilities are there for much better information, why not use it, if you can navigate by old methods too it is bombproof isn't it?

An example, my great uncle, who had been a fisherman from a boy and only retired (after much nagging) a few years ago died two weeks ago at 84. Last year his nephew took him out on his trawler / pot boat. My uncle was saying similar things about the nephews plotter and how he never had it in his day, unnecessary etc.

When his nephew picked up every pot without searching, even in poor vis, my uncle was flabbaghast and spent the rest of the trip out playing with it, heard at times apparently to say 'I wish we had had this when I was working'. This from an old time fisherman, when I used to visit he would always mention it once we got on to talking boats, about 8 seconds after the first hello's really /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

In summary, not everything modern and electronic is a sin on a yacht, some of it makes life a bit more simple. The same argument could be put to evrything, sell your computers, your televisions, cars, telephones.

<hr width=100% size=1>Julian

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.topcatsail.co.uk>Top Cat Homepage</A>

 

[seaesta]

Fin
I have two tips
1. Before you start say to yourself "If a jobs worth doing its worth doing in stainless" and take this to mean you will do a really good job from top quality materials. You will then produce something you are proud of, is safe and will maintain a standard for the boat. This does not mean buying dear - some of my best improvements are from wombled materials. Do take time thinking through what you will/are doing
2. Do as much as you can jobwise in the winter and make sure you use the summer for sailing.
Martin

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[LadyInBed]

It is nice to walk abroad your boat tied up in a marina with electricity laid on, but by God it costs you. A swinging mooring can be very inconvenient but will save you a fair sum over the years.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[ruff_n_tumble]

The cost of the convenience of a marina pontoon against a mooring is probably the biggest potential saving - and with a nice deep water swinging mooring, for the 340 days of the year when I can't get to the boat I'm pleased I'm not paying for that convenience.

<hr width=100% size=1>Steve Marsh
Hunter 27 OOD "Ruff-n-Tumble"
Gosport

 

[Mirelle]

Yes, but the question was...

...how to save money!

There really can be no doubt that yottitronics is the area of sailing which offers the worst value for money - unless you feel that safety equipment which is never used qualifies for that description - and it is therefore the first area to cut out if you are looking to save money.

The equipment you describe is very nice to have, but all of it is expensive, none of it is necessary, and much of it is prone to deciding not to work when you want it to.

If it is a choice between a chart plotter and proper seacocks, I would spend the money on the seacocks, which is what I actually did, a couple of years ago.

I will confess to feeling badly let down by some expensive yottitronics from a big name maker which was a struggle to afford and which has never worked properly, but I fancy I am not alone in that.

Yes by all means have yottitronics, but they are the icing on the cake, not the flour and eggs.

<hr width=100% size=1>Que scais-je?