Expected forces on reefing lines ?

[lw395]

I have to agree with Webcraft - I have 4 reefs all continuously rigged and, providing you're reasonably self-disciplined there is no problem with "string thrashing around".

However my first two reefs are single line and that does involve a lot of string in the cockpit when both are in.

As to rigging a messenger and putting in your last reef when you need it ..

All I'll say is I too started with that delusion - after the first time of attempting to rig the last reef I finally got into port and, very chastened, put in the permanaent last reef line.

Four reefs sounds like a lot of string to me.
Do we really need to fine-tune main area to that extent?
How small is a 4-reefed main? 50% height= 25% area?
I wonder if it's better to have 2 sets of reefing gear that work really well than 4 undersized sets squeezed into the boom?

Mind you, I did used to cheat by having a cruising main, which was a lot less power than the racing kevlar monsta, even without a reef. But I didn't take 6 bodies as moving ballast cruising....

Main thing is to have whatever system in good nick and working smoothly and reliably.
Not find the fourth clutch hasn't been used for two years and is clogged with bird poo...

 

[PeterWright]

In answer to your question, the inboard line will carry half the vector sum of the luff and foot loads and the outboard reefing line carries half the vector sum of the leech and foot loads (the half because each reefing line is 2 part from the cringle). The result in both cases will be approximately equal to the main halyard load, depending on how tight you want the foot. When you're reefed, you should have luff and foot loads faiely high to flatten the sail The relationship of any of these loads to main sheet load depends entirely on how you have your kicker set up.

I have some sympathy with the difficulties you are having with single line reefing - unless the boom is designed for it, with a traveller inside, it rarely works well as a backfit and your UFO almost certainly started life with rams horns and spectacles for reefing the luff. If I were you, I'd go back to this arrangement and fit Spinlock clutches. You can probabaly get away with XAS's but the cams will have a fairly short life, if you sail hard. I would go for XTS's, if your budget can stand it. Using the triples and doubles allows you to squeeze them into a narrower space

I have sailed many yachts and if these didn't work on racers they would be thrown overboard, yet almost all racers have a bank each side of the coachroof - even my Westerly Storm sported 5 Spinlocks each side! If they start slipping, replace the cams - they don't cost that much and the improvement is instant.

The real art of single handing is planning all manouvres well in advance. To reef with rams horns, come on to a close reach, set the autopilot, ease the main till all wind is spilt (watching the pilot) , dump the kicker, ease the main halyard to a pre set mark, clip on and nip forward to hook the spectacle onto the rams horn, back to the cockpit to crank up the halyard, wind in the reef, sheet the main (watching the pillot again) make up the kicker, then return to the helm and back on course. Total time about 5 minutes, time out of the cockpit about 1 minute. Practice when you don't need to reef and it will become automatic, but it's essential to have the halyard marked at the clutch for each reef at a position which gives just enough slack to get the spectacle on but not too much so it falls off while you're getting back to the cockpit.

Hope this helps.

Peter

 

[PeterWright]

I don't think he's looking for 4 reefs - just two with a reefing line from each end of each reef. Hence the advice of some to go back to rams horns. (In reply to IW395)

 

[Rossynant]

Provided the decks arrangement is such as to make going to the mast safe (AWB designers seem not to think about it) the best idea I've seen was tack line (tack tackle in fact) with snap shackle to attach to reef cringle, then reef line from leech cringle to be hauled (along the boom) taut, tighten the halyard back. Everything done at the mast, inside a minute. 60 sqm main.
Friction in eyelet + turning block means there is no purchase really, any other block on the way also makes it harder. Simplicity is best

 

[fishermantwo]

In answer to your question, the inboard line will carry half the vector sum of the luff and foot loads and the outboard reefing line carries half the vector sum of the leech and foot loads (the half because each reefing line is 2 part from the cringle). The result in both cases will be approximately equal to the main halyard load, depending on how tight you want the foot. When you're reefed, you should have luff and foot loads faiely high to flatten the sail The relationship of any of these loads to main sheet load depends entirely on how you have your kicker set up.

I have some sympathy with the difficulties you are having with single line reefing - unless the boom is designed for it, with a traveller inside, it rarely works well as a backfit and your UFO almost certainly started life with rams horns and spectacles for reefing the luff. If I were you, I'd go back to this arrangement and fit Spinlock clutches. You can probabaly get away with XAS's but the cams will have a fairly short life, if you sail hard. I would go for XTS's, if your budget can stand it. Using the triples and doubles allows you to squeeze them into a narrower space

I have sailed many yachts and if these didn't work on racers they would be thrown overboard, yet almost all racers have a bank each side of the coachroof - even my Westerly Storm sported 5 Spinlocks each side! If they start slipping, replace the cams - they don't cost that much and the improvement is instant.

The real art of single handing is planning all manouvres well in advance. To reef with rams horns, come on to a close reach, set the autopilot, ease the main till all wind is spilt (watching the pilot) , dump the kicker, ease the main halyard to a pre set mark, clip on and nip forward to hook the spectacle onto the rams horn, back to the cockpit to crank up the halyard, wind in the reef, sheet the main (watching the pillot again) make up the kicker, then return to the helm and back on course. Total time about 5 minutes, time out of the cockpit about 1 minute. Practice when you don't need to reef and it will become automatic, but it's essential to have the halyard marked at the clutch for each reef at a position which gives just enough slack to get the spectacle on but not too much so it falls off while you're getting back to the cockpit.

Hope this helps.

Peter

Lot of nipping about there Peter! If your going to use ram horns why not use jammers on the mast? Do the whole procedure in one place.

 

[Boo2]

...your UFO almost certainly started life with rams horns and spectacles for reefing the luff. If I were you, I'd go back to this arrangement...

I don't think he's looking for 4 reefs - just two with a reefing line from each end of each reef. Hence the advice of some to go back to rams horns. (In reply to IW395)

Hi Peter,

I am determined to have reefing done entirely from the cockpit just because I think there is an inclination to put it off if you have to go to the mast to do it. I will always be on my own and would prefer to be able to steer at the same time. I do have an Autohelm 4000, which seems strong enough, but I don't want to commit to that steering while I am at the mast wrestling with reef points and cringles slipping off the rams horns in a rising gale. There is always the issue of what do you do if it cr*ps out on you at a critical moment and it's not as if they're specified to be waterproof or anything useful like that

For the same reasons I think I need 3 reefs permanently reeved rather than the more usual 2 : I really don't want to have to set a storm sail on my own up at the mast with the boat being steered by an autopilot in bad seas and winds.

So for that reason I am stuck with the issues of getting the lines back.

Do I take it from your preference for Spinlock clutches that you don't think the Lewmar D1 clutches will be man enough for reefing lines on a UFO 34 ?

I did also read your remarks on my Spinnaker/foreguy question too, thanks for that, it's very good to hear from someone who has actually sailed a UFO 34 helping me make my decisions.

Boo2