Ex Racer as first cruising yacht

[Cameron]

Yes- yet another first boat please give me lots of advice thread.

I realise that there is a boat for every opinion but my question is pretty specific. I have done some sailing but not a lot and am looking for a first boat with girl friend who has a similar level of experience.

We have a shore base with mooring and will be doing mostly weekend type sailing so very comfortable accomodation doesn't seem such a priority- we are unlikely to be out for weeks on end. Some racier yachts seem to offer a newer boat at a sharp price for a loss in headroom and fittings and so seem a possibility for us.

Question- are these boats much harder to sail and are they less safe. I am thinking along the lines of say a Limbo 6.6 or Bolero.

Many thanks in advance. PS i will be doing a day skipper in May/June.

 

[PureChemistry]

I bought my MG Spring in Gurensey, Sailed it up to Glasson, Lancaster where I raced her for a short time before heading South. She is now in South Brittany from where I sail her around 2000 miles each year with my family in all weather conditions. (Including being 15 minutes away from a 200 knot tornado on the Isle of Houat last year). I have had absolutely no problem with the boat despite a rather limited maintainace schedule (about 2 days per year) Having sailed many boats I can honestly say that, unless you want to pay well over double the going rate for a Spring, you wont get a boat that provides: the turn of speed and assoiciated "fun of sailing" with accomodation, bathing platform (essential to safe boarding of tenders) an inboard diesel, seperate nav area and chart table, decent locker space and accomodation for up to 6 people all in a 25 footer. They do take some learning to sail to get the best out of them though. Thoroghly recommended. I shall keep mine until I can sell my wife and children for an Ovni 395 at roughly 10 times the price!
Dave Griffin
purechemistry@o2.co.uk
p.s. Ex Dart catamaran sailer. buy one of these. It wont outpace a dart but it will "sail" Watch "Howards Way" then apply dinghy sailing rules...

 

[alienzdive]

IMHO

If you are considering racing, buy a racing yacht, and race it.

If you are considering weekend sailing trips, get a cruising yacht.

A cruising yacht is more practical for weekends away and overnighters, as well as comfort. You did mention comfort is not a priority though.

However a racing yacht is usually lighter and requires more hands on deck to be sailed well. A racing yacht is less forgiving and requires constant adjustmants and tuning, a cruising yacht reacts to wind and wave action (in general) slightly slower giving a small crew a more relaxing type sailng experience.

I had a cruiser that I could point the tiller and walk up on the foredeck briefly and make headsail adjustments/ changes. Most of the controls were easily accessed from the cockpit and I could comfortably sail and tack solo in 30-40 knots of wind. A racing boat I had on the other hand if I let go of the tiller it would round up into the wind, required more hands on deck and constant adjustment and concentration in winds above 10 knots.

PS, All boat designs and crew requirements are different.

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Cameron,

I guess if you are OK with the potential for somewhat reduced comfort levels then its a possibility, but be aware of a few things....

1] A genuine racer may not just be a bit spartan below... some are stripped out to the point of ridiculous.... most flooring removed, cupboard doors missing, tiny tiny water and fule tanks etc etc.... but not always, depends upon what class its raced in, but look with your eyes open as to whether its actually practical to live on for more than 24 hours...

2] it'll probably have been sailed hard, so check state of things like stanchions, mast step, decking, deck around mast base, mast straightness, etc etc, very carefully...

3] Last, but not least... make sure that the rig is appropriate for your needs.... it may be fun having running backstays if you want to race, but for a relatively inexperienced cruiser (as you state), they may prove more trouble than they are worth, or worse, downright dangerous... and the sails may well all be hanked on, so, no roller reefing... again might be OK, but eyes open...

Having re-read all this, it seems a bit negative. I am certain that a race boat could be easily, comfortably, and successfuly used as a cruiser in the context that you describe, but think about what set ups it has and its condition before you jump in.... a racer is different in more ways than just hull speed.....

 

[allanc]

Cameron,
Yes, there will be other points of view, but if this is your first boat and you have a level of uncertainty and perhaps inexperience - and, unless you have a burning desire to spend money, I'd say hold off until perhaps you've completed your day-skipper course, not just because you want that qualification but because your experience and awareness will be greater after it, you will have spoken to more people and have more of your own opinion on what you might want.
At the moment, with the first flush of potential ownership driving you towards a purchase, you might find yourself the owner of a worn-out and tired ex-racer that no-one else wants anyway. Cheap to buy but expensive and financially wasteful to bring back up to spec. You will lose nothing by delaying your purchase for a while. You'll be wiser in a year's time and won't have to ask the same question.
Good luck
Allan

 

[aidancoughlan]

I've bought my first boat this autumn (to be sailed shorthanded by myself & my wife mostly) and have gone through a similar thought process... I considered everything from:
(a) trailer sailors (didnt get specific, but at the top end a superseal 26 is a very good lift keel fast cruiser which is trailerable when needed)
(b) ex club-racers (eg. bolera, delta,eyghtene24 etc.)
(c) older cheaper long keelers (contessa26, halcyon 27...) 8-10k
(d) older 28ft fin keel cruisers with more volume (twin forecabin, 2-3 in saloon)... trapper 500, dufour 2800.... 13-15k

My advice is decide on what you really want to do first:
(1) if you want to dip a toe in the water cheaply, it's hard to beat a trailer sailer - marinas, moorings,boat yards, cranes and particulary haulage can add greatly to the cost as I am finding out!
(2) if you have a local club, have tried & enjoyed racing, it's the best way of ensuring that you actually use your boat regularly. Many cruisers club race for this reason. It's also cost fairly effective - club racing boats are cheaper than cruisers.... But, as previous posts mention, there is a big variance in fit-out and condiiton of ex-race boats - remember that if you are cruising. A big part of the attraction of sailing for us is sitting comfortably in the cabin at night with a bottle of wine & a home cooked meal. (Also consider if your girlfriend is into racing first.)
Some of the racier cruiser-racers while great fun are not something I would like to be out shirt-handed in during a blow.
(3) If you are intending to cruise & go places at weekends, I would consider more cruising versions of the 25-26 ft boats, Jaguar 25, Cobra 750+850 are ones I recall, or if your budget extends to it the likes of the Trapper & Dufour 2800 will give much more comfortable accomodation. If you want a really seaworthy cruising boat on a budget, look at the long keelers & live with the limited but often cosy space arrangements.

After going through all the options over a period of time, we eventually settled on a cruising boat. If you're really not sure, I'd recommend minimise the investment and go the trailer sailor option... then decide what to upgrade to. I wish I'd done that a couple of years ago when I started thinking about buying a boat !

 

[Cameron]

Cheers everyone. I think Alans right- it makes sense to hold off a little. We are chartering a skippered 47' ketch in the Ionian (ouch) for our honeymoon in September and as I said will be doing the yachtmasters. I guess that this will be plenty of sailing for a year and I'll have the fun of continued fender kicking.

 

[William_H]

I reckon that a racing yacht will be fine for you. The first thing to remember is to have the right sails on for any conditions which in a racing yacht will mean when cruising less sail same performance. This rule also means you don't need a roller reefing jib just put a small jib on. If the boat seems excessively tender and sensitive to body weight position you can add more under floor lead balast. In a 6.6 metre boat you don't need headroom so much and a spartan racing interior means more room for your gear without intrusion of cupboards which of course you can fit if you want. At this size you are better off with a trailerable yacht with lift keel however around here a lot of people use fin keels on a trailer and get the best of both worlds, of normally on a mooring but able to trail home easily. A bit more trouble to retrieve and launch but doable. The towing width limit is 2.5 metres here ( 8ft and a bit) which is a typical beam for 6.6 metre boat. Regards ole will

 

[Mirelle]

Perfectly good

OK, now I have a heavy gaff cutter.

But my second boat, back in 1972, was a very old, tired, clapped Dragon, which I cruised the length of the east coast in, either singlehanded or with a (very understanding) girlfriend. Compared to that, a Bolero is both spacious and seaworthy. (Yes, I have sailed one a few times - my view of other classes would be more academic!)

 

[surekandoo]

I had the same problem 3 years ago. I bought a Limbo 6.6 and haven't looked back.

I sail singlehanded quite a lot and found the Limbo easy to handle, fast and quite forgiving. Accomodation's a bit cramped, headroom's not the best, but I want to sail not ponce about down below fiddling with chart plotters etc. admiring woodwork, dishing out cordon bleu meals etc. etc. Really all I wanted was a place to kip when I'd done sailing for the day, and my boat fits the bill just fine. You'll be OK 2 or 3 up, 4 up's a bit cramped but fine as ballast for sailing the boat upright in a blow. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Limbo's have a decent web site at http://uk.msnusers.com/Limboyachts