Bodach na mara
Well-Known Member
I understand that this all depends on the boat being within the UK on specific date. Does anybody know what that date is?
Evidence of VAT Paid status in UK.
- Thread starter Bodach na mara
- Start date
Irish Rover
Well-Known Member
31/12/20
Bodach na mara
Well-Known Member
Thanks I.R.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
While that was the date that signalled the creation of the 2 separate customs areas the location of the boat is not definitive proof of its VAT status (which may well be different from payment of VAT) now. For a boat that has spent all its life in the UK VAT status is a non issue. However if the boat has spent any time outside the UK, it is possible for the UK VAT status to be lost. In such cases more investigation is needed on an individual basis.
lustyd
Well-Known Member
And then there’s Northern Ireland 
dunedin
Well-Known Member
As Tranona says, not sure that UK VAT status is much of a date think. It’s more about history, whereabouts etc.
Is there a specific reason / scenario for the question, that might get a more useful answer for you?
Bodach na mara
Well-Known Member
The specific reason is that Sea Hawk is for sale as I think that I have reached the point where I must accept that I can no longer give a boat the attention which it needs. One of the first questions asked was "Has VAT been paid?" And the second was "Where's the proof?"
Irish Rover
Well-Known Member
That's very definitely a different question. 31/12/20 doesn't answer it.
P.S. Sorry to here you've reached that dilemma stage. It's probably not far off for many of us.
dunedin
Well-Known Member
In which case I am not sure that any date is of major relevance if the boat in in the UK - unless it is sufficiently old to pre-date VAT (or it has a more complex history of overseas sales post Brexit).
Tranona will I am sure be along soon to give definitive information, but what you would need to “prove” VAT was paid would be the original invoice from boat builder or agent to the first buyer.
But not a big priority anyway, as nobody likely to bother in the UK. And won’t help anybody taking to EU anyway.
lustyd
Well-Known Member
It would be useful to have a marina invoice or better letter showing where it was on Brexit day. Our marina provided this a couple of years down the line.
Original invoice does help but doesn’t prove current status.
Original invoice does help but doesn’t prove current status.
Graham376
Well-Known Member
As you say, not a problem when sailing in the UK but, if an owner takes it abroad, it may be relevant if claiming RGR on return.
dunedin
Well-Known Member
Why would that help, unless the boat is currently in EU waters?
If it is a UK owned boat, bought by the current owner in the UK and currently in the UK, its whereabouts on Brexit day is irrelevant.
Even if it was in EU on Brexit day it would have been allowed to return to UK with UK VAT status.
And if sold in the UK it loses any EU VAT status, if it had it by being in EU on the B date.
Irish Rover
Well-Known Member
On a practical level this is all true, but if a prospective buyer has listened to or read all the scare stories about proving VAT paid status he's going to want more. So IMHO the OP should sit down a write out as much of the history of his boat as he knows and see what documentation he has or can get to support that. If he sells it in the UK the buyer is never going to have an issue or a problem but that's not the point. The point is how does he satisfy a buyer who asks for proof of VAT status.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Could well be in the category of "deemed VAT paid" based on age (1985 or earlier) and in the EU in 1992. However there is no legal requirement to keep any proof of payment of VAT. Having proof only became an issue in the latter days of our membership of of the EU when there was a growth in the number of boats that (mostly legitimately) were in circulation without VAT being paid and boats that owing to the rules had lost EU VAT "status". VAT paid status gave a boat freedom of circulation (EU goods) within the EU and could be bought and sold by private persons without further VAT payment. This led to greater scrutiny of boats moving from one state to another within the EU, where individual states had varying levels of documentary requirements showing VAT payment. The UK has no formal requirement and the only document that ever established status was the original invoice. Even then it is only valid on the day it was issued as status could be potentially lost the very next day, for example by taking the boat out of EU territorial waters.
All of a bit of a nonsense like many things from EU legislation, but the practical effect was real concern from those involved in buying and selling boats such as dealers, brokers, finance houses, banks, solicitors etc that they should seek some evidence of VAT status before getting involved in boat transactions. Since the mid noughties the mantra has grown that "proof" is needed. However the vast majority of boats , particularly older ones do not have any documentary "proof" and it has not stopped people freely buying and selling boats.
One would like to think that was all behind us since 31/12/2020, and in a sense it is because the withdrawal agreement did say that each boat's VAT status (that is in which customs area) would be determined by where it was physically located on that day. So in the case of your boat the question is redundant if it has been in your ownership since then. If, though it had left UK waters and changed ownership then returned that status would be lost. As Dunedin says proof of status is all about the provenance of the boat - going back over its past ownership and location to see how it "acquired" its status. In your case it seems it was either under the terms of the Lisbon agreement in1992, or on the sale of the boat from Westerly to the first owner that it became EU goods and on 31/12/2020 it became UK goods.
First response to punters' questions is perhaps a flat no, on the basis that every other boat they look at in this price/age range will be in the same position. The only time you, or they will be asked about status by any official is on entry into the UK after a trip abroad when you will be required to declare that you own the boat - even then you will confirm this by ticking the box to say that you are applying for RGR. That is the VAT rule that allows you to take your UK VAT status boat outside and return without paying VAT.
Hope this helps both you and maybe others reading this thread.
lustyd
Well-Known Member
Because buyers might like to see it as relevant evidence. I certainly would ask and will provide it.
ridgy
Well-Known Member
Do what everyone else does, say you don't have proof so buy it or don't buy it. No boat I've ever owned had any paperwork.
Irish Rover
Well-Known Member
Grand if there's a Q of buyers. But a bummer if there's only one and he's fussy.
dunedin
Well-Known Member
So please explain what relevance the location on Brexit date has to a UK owned boat being sold in the UK. The rules are now “asymmetric”, so location in EU on that date can be relevant in some circumstances, if being sold in EU. But otherwise please explain what relevance?
lustyd
Well-Known Member
It was part of the exit agreement. Goods in each location kept that status with some very specific exceptions. If the boat was in the EU then the owner that took it out of UK had to bring it back to qualify for RGR
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Irrelevant for a UK based boat as there is no dispute about status, but useful for a UK owned boat in the EU on the date, or an EU owned boat in the UK, partly because such boats may have acquired dual status and partly because the boat retains free circulation - not so important in the UK but very important for UK owned boats in the EU.