ETAP 23i outboard

[carljbray]

Hi All,

Please could you help;
does anyone have any experience of replacing the original Yamaha 8c 2 stroke in an Etap, with something more modern?
eg a modern DFI 2 stroke or a four stroke, or potentially even electric - if the cost is not too restrictive.

My 30 year old etap, which I've owned for 4 years, the engine is sadly looking like a write off - it's a 30 year old outboard, so has done pretty well
I was hoping to get a couple more years out of it, but was aware it would need replacing sometime

There are a few issues which I can see with this straight from the start
- replacing a 2 stroke with a 4 stroke of similar power, will mean a much bigger and heavier engine, it will need to fit into a well on the etap, so size is an issue
- the fitting in the etap is not standard - it doesn't have the clamps you see on a standard outboard, or an obvious place to fit an engine with clamps - on the etap, there are two vertical screws, with a fitting on the engine that slots on top, with thumb screws securing it in place
- The fitting could probably be transferred to a "new" outboard, however there is also a heavy duty rubber Gasket/baffle which fit's snuggly around the leg of the engine, and into the well, which not only helps to stop water sloshing up the well, but would appear to take the majority of the force from the drive of the engine, rather than into the transom, like on a normal outboard

Has anyone been through this process, or know the best way around these issues?

Many thanks for any help,
Carl

 

[coveman]

Hi Carl,

Yes this is a problem as most original engines fitted to these boats are getting old. I have a 8hp Yamaha 2 stroke at present which is still running well but last year I managed to obtain another the same which was unused that had been stored by an Etap owner just in case his original died! So I was very lucky and now have a spare which will probably see my sailing days out!

I have a 22i with the same connections for the outboard as you describe. As you say a four stroke could possibly fit but they are much heavier to remove and you are likely to need more horses in the 4 stroke to give you the same power.

When I anticipated my original engine giving up I contacted Robin Curnow outboards in Falmouth. They had fitted new outboards into the well after doing some adjustment to the well. It would be worth giving them a call as they were very helpful when I was looking.

Electric may be possible but expensive and possibly limited range depending how far you intend motoring.

The alternative is to keep looking for another Yamaha 8hp 2 stroke but good ones are scarce and command a premium price.

The other option I thought of was to attach a bracket to the transom and put an outboard on that. It wouldn't give you the same control of the boat but does away with finding a plug to fit it and adapting the attachment point. The well could then be filled in permanently.

Hope that helps ( a bit) !

 

[Seajet]

On the Anderson 22 it is normal to lift out the engine, stow it in a cockpit locker and fit a plug in the well when sailing any significant distance; this gives a drag free hull and prevents the surprising amount of noise from turbulence in the well, also avoiding collecting weed and floating lines etc.

I have got on fine including motoring across the Channel Studland - Guernsey in calms with a Yamaha 4 & now Mariner 5hp engines, 2 strokes as the modern 4 stroke is ridiculously heavy - Mariner 5hp 2 strokes with remote fuel tank and charging coil are available secondhand on the 'net.

I'd never dream of having an engine on a transom bracket if there's a well available; looks awful, weight in the wrong place, can't reach the controls, pitches the prop' out of the water in waves, and if rafted out at a wall someones' shore lines may well go around and tear off the controls - other than that it's perfect !

 

[seumask]

We replaced a Yamaha 8 2 stroke on our Hunter Delta 25 with a Tohatsu 5 hp 4 stroke. They are a very similar in size and weight, the 4 stoke was great. Significantly less noisy and much less thirsty. There was no noticeable difference in day to day usage, however you have to be careful with 4 strokes when not in use and which way you lay them down if not in use. ON the Delta it was fine up , similar to cocking the motor up to beach the boat.

On a side note we also used a mariner 3.3 2 stroke on one occasion which coped in flat water (Poole Harbour) pushing the boat into to wind with gusts up to 30 knots, that too was pretty good as we used it on the tender as well. So IMHO I'd say you really don't need to worry about getting to 8 hp or more.

On most occasions if there is any wind you should be able to sail!

 

[coveman]

I would agree with Seajet that a transom hung motor is not ideal. However if your intention is to just use an engine to motor away from crowded moorings before putting the sails up for a day sail it has its place. You only need a 2.5hp motor to do this - possibly the same one used on the dinghy to get out to your mooring - light and easy to remove etc. This means you do not have to man handle the main engine out of the cockpit if you are just going for a short sail.

The well in the Etap is designed so that only the very end of the leg and prop are in the water and the plug is flush with the bottom of the hull, with minimal drag and no water in the well to cause turbulence - I have tried both with the plug and engine mounted, and without, and the drag is minimal.

If you plan to go any distance then you would use the main engine in the well - if the Mariner 5hp that Seajet mentions will do want you want then it would be ideal - only 20kgs as opposed to the Yamaha 8hp at 27kgs, but the displacement of an Anderson 22 at 1134kg is less than an Etap23i at 1500kgs so you would need to make sure it was adequate for your needs. You would still have the problem of redesigning the plug to fit the engine.

 

[Seajet]

coveman,

fair enough, but I've always thought the Andersons' displacement of 2,500lbs is a suspicisouly convenient round figure !

Add to that all the junk I cart around like inflatable, anchors, etc etc - though the Etap may well be the same.

 

[PeterV]

My Hunter Duette has a 6hp Tohatsu and I lift that in and out of the well by myself without any problem. The well also has a rubber thing round the bottom, presumably to reduce turbulence.

 

[Seajet]

PeterV,

I'd be interested to see a photo of that if you can get round to it please; Anderson 22 owners have tried various ideas like a well plug with an aperture for the outboard leg and brush-style bristles to close around it.

It didn't work, the cooling inlet was just there so the engine overheated - when motoring I always put my hand under the outlet as a temperature guage every few minutes, anything more than luke warm with the Mariner 5hp 2-stroke spells trouble, often a plastic bag around the engine leg.

 

[coveman]

PeterV,

I'd be interested to see a photo of that if you can get round to it please; Anderson 22 owners have tried various ideas like a well plug with an aperture for the outboard leg and brush-style bristles to close around it.

It didn't work, the cooling inlet was just there so the engine overheated - when motoring I always put my hand under the outlet as a temperature guage every few minutes, anything more than luke warm with the Mariner 5hp 2-stroke spells trouble, often a plastic bag around the engine leg.

On the Etap the bung is of solid rubber type contruction about 2" thick which is very solid and exactly fits the detail of the Yamaha - so no bristles etc - a perfect fit,and does not allow water to come up through it. There is a tiny hole to allow water from the water pump indicator pipe (pee hole) to drain out. This is why it is difficult to adapt for other engines. It doesn't interfere with the cooling intake but it does fit lower than the rear exhaust, around the cavitation plate. To overcome this the engine leg is tapped, a spigot inserted and a pipe led from the well out through the transom, from which the exhaust fumes emit, and hence no fumes enter the cockpit from the well.

Having looked at the Swallow Boats range at the Boat Show I noticed they use the type you suggest with the brush style bristles, which presumably would be easier to adapt to fit different shaped engines.

 

[carljbray]

Thanks to everyone for their responses,
For coveman - lucky you to have a spare yamaha 8c - that would be ideal.
Would you say that for the etap, with the unusual fitting - ie the bolts and thumscrews - that the well baffle/gasket is intrinsic to the setup, and transfers some of the force of the engine through the boat? or did you say that you've tried running the engine without the baffle/gasket in the past?
It looks to me like couldn't run an engine in the well without the baffle, without modifying the well, to distribute the force of the engine.

Part of my concern with a new 4 stroke, is that with the etap, the engine stays in the water the whole time, so flushing is not an option, except at the end of the season - is this likely to more of a problem with the 4 stroke than the 2? It's quite impressive the yamaha lasted so long really.
This is why I was looking at the electric option, as lifting the motor out of the well would be very easy.

I have found, that it may be possible to import a "new" yamaha 8c from a website abroad, new as in unused, and out of the box.
If legit this could be the saviour, as it would be an ideal solution, and potentially not too expensive, although presumably duty/tax will be payable, as well as shipping.
I would just have to modify it to swap over the g-clamps for the thumb screw fitting, but if that is all, I would be very happy, to get my etap on the water again.

Many thanks for any help

Carl

 

[carljbray]

Another question to anyone with an ETAP and the original yamaha 8c 2 stroke;
do you know if you have the long leg or short leg version of this engine?

Cheers,
Carl

 

[Seajet]

Thanks to everyone for their responses,
For coveman - lucky you to have a spare yamaha 8c - that would be ideal.
Would you say that for the etap, with the unusual fitting - ie the bolts and thumscrews - that the well baffle/gasket is intrinsic to the setup, and transfers some of the force of the engine through the boat? or did you say that you've tried running the engine without the baffle/gasket in the past?
It looks to me like couldn't run an engine in the well without the baffle, without modifying the well, to distribute the force of the engine.

Part of my concern with a new 4 stroke, is that with the etap, the engine stays in the water the whole time, so flushing is not an option, except at the end of the season - is this likely to more of a problem with the 4 stroke than the 2? It's quite impressive the yamaha lasted so long really.
This is why I was looking at the electric option, as lifting the motor out of the well would be very easy.

I have found, that it may be possible to import a "new" yamaha 8c from a website abroad, new as in unused, and out of the box.
If legit this could be the saviour, as it would be an ideal solution, and potentially not too expensive, although presumably duty/tax will be payable, as well as shipping.
I would just have to modify it to swap over the g-clamps for the thumb screw fitting, but if that is all, I would be very happy, to get my etap on the water again.

Many thanks for any help

Carl

Carl,

I know a chap in Southern Ireland who got a ' new ' Mariner 5hp 2-stroke fom a boatyard, the proprietor had seen the writing on the wall for lightweight 2-stroke engines - and their usefulness - and ordered a large batch.

Although a 2-stoke may be a bit more resistant to corrosion as it's more ' oily ' I'd be very careful attending to the anodes, I think they'll be the key to a long engine life.

 

[coveman]

Hi Carl,

To answer your latest question - the Yamaha that you need is definitely the "short" or "standard" version of the engine. This is denoted by CMH - S as the engine type. The lettering is very confusing but I imagine your old engine would have that as the model number ( stamped on the original G clamp if you still have it)

Yes I would agree with your comment about running the engine in the well without the plug - I have never done this and would assume it would put too much pressure on the two vertical bolts if the engine was run without it.

As far as leaving the engine in the well - if I am unlikely to use the engine for a while (a week or so) I take the engine out complete with the plug attached and store it in the cabin. It's a bit of a bind doing this but hopefully will prolong the life of the engine. Having said that you see plenty of boats with their outboards in the water all the time so maybe I am being too cautious! The problem with a 4 stroke is that they tend to be even heavier than the 2 stroke and you have to be careful how you lie them down.

If you can get a "new" import then that would seem the way to go. If you keep the thumb screw fitting of the old engine it is easy to change the new one to fit. I normally put the clamp on mine for storage over the winter when I have the boat at home. As you are no doubt aware new 2 strokes are banned except for commercial fisherman and sailing school rescue boats. Crazy when you see artic lorries going up and down the motorway doing 8 miles / gallon - I cant believe an 8hp outboard is going to produce much in the way of pollution, especially on a sailing boat!
You used to be able to buy "new" 2 strokes in the Channel Islands - run them for a few hours there and then import them as second hand - maybe worth contacting a chandler there or find someone who is sailing there to buy one for you.

Electric would be an option but remember their limited range - though I think they are getting better - though expensive.

If your boat hasn't been used for a while it would pay to service the keel raising mechanism but that's another story!!

 

[coveman]

Carl,
The engine type should look like this, assuming the 23i has the same as a 22i which I am fairly certain they do,

 

[carljbray]

Thanks again Coveman - very helpful, re the shaft length and well plug, it's is good to double check these things with someone.
I'd had conflicting views on whether it was the short or long, but a mechanic said they believe it was a short one too.

re the well plug, this does mean that buying any engine that is not a copy of the original, will cause difficulties as a new one would need to be sourced, or modify the old one to fit.
Seems like an odd decision by ETAP to make this choice, given that it makes things rather restrictive in the future. Yamaha were bound to discontinue the 8c at some point, regardless of the new rules regarding 2 strokes. I know you can can new plugs from David Morris, who carry the etap spares, but presumably these are cut to fit the 8c still.

I'm going to probably proceed with the import, once I reassure myself the site and vendor is legit! It looks like it'll be coming from Hong Kong, so fingers crossed

The keel mechanism is a challenge for another time, as you say! - I've owned the boat 4 years now, so probably due.

Cheers,
Carl

 

[coveman]

You are correct in all your assumptions - I do have a friend in Spain I know who has fitted a 8hp 4 stroke to his boat - if he is happy for me to give you his email address Ill PM you with it - maybe another possibility.
As far as the keel is concerned I have some useful info on servicing this that I originally obtained from the the Etap Owners website (now defunct) which may help you to service it. If you want this let me know.
Good luck with the Hong Kong import - will be interesting to know how you get on.