Epifanes Paint

[Glynny]

Hi guys,
Beware, the true cost of a repaint with supposedly good quality paints and resources.
My experience was solely with Jackson-marine who are apparently, the UK importers of Epifanes paints and coatings.

I asked Lee Jackson fir his advise on how I can repaint my newly refurbished plywood and mahogany West Wight Potter from 1963.
Lee made recommendations of 2 pack epoxy coating for the hull as I am dry sailing her most weekends and this will be a tough water resistant barrier paint.
For the topsides, Lee recommended a single pack which requires very precise and thorough preparation prior to application by brush and roller.

in short, I bought all the products from Jackson-marine.
I bought:
Epifanes 2 pack white
Epifanes single pack blue
Epifanes primer in grey
20 roller refills
40 tack clothes
Epifanes spray thinner (for prep and cleaning)

I followed the prep sequence by the letter, the instructions on the products were adhered to meticulously and, I had the benefit of an in house professional marine painter on hand to assist my venture.
I applied the products in almost zero humidity and at just 20 degrees.
After 4 months of completing this project which, according to our pro guy, was a great attempt with excellent finish quality.

I then noticed that after removing some low tack tape which was used by the canvas maker who was supplying our new cockpit cover, the paint top coat on the transom had started to peel off the primer coats.

after much investigation and the usual emails and phone calls over the ensuing months with Jackson-marine and the Epifanes themselves, it turns out that the problem wholly lies on my shoulders. I, apparently, did not sand the primer coats flat prior to applying top coats.
Now then, looking again at the spec sheets and the product instructions printed on side of tin, there is no mention of the compulsory sanding of primer paint to a flat finish. Indeed, the pro painter who, incidentally, has over 30 years experience of boat painting, also suggested that there is not usually a need to totally flat a primer coat prior to top coat.

Epifanes have totally changed the specs and method of application in phone calls alone. They have refused to put this in writing nor do they accept any responsibility for the peeling paint on my boats transom.

I bought an expensiveMarine biased paint from a so-called marine refurbishment specialist which also offered technical advise on both products and application.
Now, both Jackson-marine and Epifanes don’t want to know me and have washed their hands of my problem.
Absolutely disgusting service.
Every time I phone, they want to fob me off with a blame which they say is mine alone.

Remember this thread when you come to purchase any Epifanes products

 

[lusitano]

Have to say, sanding between coats particularly when going from primer to topcoat is the rule, rather than the exception. A chemical bond can be acheived with some paints if overcoated in less than 24hrs but a mechanical bond is usually always better

 

[Keith 66]

Sanding between coats is usual, i cant believe a so called pro painter would say otherwise. Putting single pack on top of epoxy primer i would always flat off well.
I have used epifanes paints & varnish extensively over 30 years or more on my own & customers boats.
I consider it to be some of the best paint on the market & will keep using it.

 

[Kukri]

Another 20 years or so user of Epifanes products- both paint and varnish.

I agree with @lusitano and @Keith 66 .

The problem is with poor technique, not with the product.

 

[Little Dorrit]

I have never had any problems with Epifanes even on teak which is a difficult wood to gain adhesion on. I have always found them to be good (although expensive) products. I always rub down between coats; I haven't heard of a paint or varnish system that does not require this. As already stated a mechanical bond is essential. Some manufacturers deviate slightly from this and state that you can apply subsequent coats of paint or varnish without rubbing down providing they are identical and are applied when the previous coat has not fully cured or 'set'. I usually go through the rubbing down route when the coats are dry. You probably don't need to ask me how I know this.

 

[ronsurf]

I've always sanded between coats. I've always considered it standard technique

 

[Kukri]

I've always sanded between coats. I've always considered it standard technique

Well, it is! Always has been!

 

[Keith 66]

I would add to this, If you are using single pack paints over west epoxy coatings or two pack epoxy primers, those epoxy coatings had better be well cured or single pack coatings of any make will likely have a very slow or retarded cure.
Amine blush will cause adhesion problems & single pack paint wont key to an unsanded base.

 

[Poignard]

I have never had any problems with Epifanes even on teak which is a difficult wood to gain adhesion on. I have always found them to be good (although expensive) products. I always rub down between coats; I haven't heard of a paint or varnish system that does not require this. As already stated a mechanical bond is essential. Some manufacturers deviate slightly from this and state that you can apply subsequent coats of paint or varnish without rubbing down providing they are identical and are applied when the previous coat has not fully cured or 'set'. I usually go through the rubbing down route when the coats are dry. You probably don't need to ask me how I know this.

Epifanes Rapidcoat desn't need sanding between coats and doesn't peel off but I'm not sure it's really a paint.

However, one advantage I find in flatting down between coats is that you can see where you have been!

 

[Little Dorrit]

Epifanes Rapidcoat desn't need sanding between coats and doesn't peel off but I'm not sure it's really a paint.

However, one advantage I find in flatting down between coats is that you can see where you have been!

View attachment 126170

Very interesting although I note that the recommended drying time is only 5 - 6 hours compared to upto 24 hours for other Epifanes products; I suspect therefore some chemical bonding will take place. It would be interesting to see how cured it is after 5 - 6 hours.