Engish channel from a different view....

[AIDY]

had an interesting flight back from mallorca today.

came up over the south brittany coast then over st malo and jersey before going over cherb and straight over the IOW..... the view of the land from my window seat was perfect. managed to spot most of the places

i could not get over how small a stretch of water the english channel is. it normally takes me 10-12 hours to cross. but today i could see both cherb and lymington at the same time..... not many ships in the shipping lanes today...

 

[LadyInBed]

came up over the south brittany coast

I waved but you didn't wave back

 

[LittleSister]

i could not get over how small a stretch of water the english channel is. it normally takes me 10-12 hours to cross. but today i could see both cherb and lymington at the same time..... not many ships in the shipping lanes today...

It used to take us much longer to cross the channel there (probably smaller boat), however, if it was clear we could still see the red lights on the big aerial mast on the Isle of Wight when we could see Cherbourg lights.

 

[prv]

i could not get over how small a stretch of water the english channel is. it normally takes me 10-12 hours to cross. but today i could see both cherb and lymington at the same time

I've just bid for a second square-rig voyage Azores -> UK. That does feel like a long way

Pete

 

[jerrytug]

I've just bid for a second square-rig voyage Azores -> UK. That does feel like a long way
When you write "bid",Pete,does that mean ebay? Sounds intesting,I want to do similar but find them expensive (100/day).
With regard to flying over the channel,it's amazing how incredibly empty it is,you could sail to France and back a thousand times blindfolded without risk of collision! Beats me how it's described as "the busiest in the world" etc. Cheers Jerry

 

[prv]

When you write "bid",Pete,does that mean ebay? Sounds intesting,I want to do similar but find them expensive (100/day).

Afraid not.

I'm on the Tall Ships Youth Trust's list of volunteers, and sail with them as a Watch Leader or Deckhand about once a year. The way they fill their crew positions is to send out a list of planned voyages each summer and winter, and you send back a form (this year they've *finally* put it all online) saying which of them you'd like to work on (with a couple of backup choices) and in what role (if you're approved for multiple roles). That's what's referred to as a "bid".

They perform some more-or-less opaque shuffling of names back in the office, and send back a reply saying what they've put you down for (or that they haven't, and here are the slots they couldn't fill, would you like one of those instead?). They've just sent out the next winter list, so I've put my name down for the Azores trip in March / April next year. Don't know if I'll get it yet - it's the first time in a while that they've run a proper offshore passage as a youth voyage (in recent years they've all been organised as adult fundraiser trips for some reason, with the youth legs all being coastal) so it may be a popular one.

And yes, the voyage prices are not cheap. Ships cost a lot to run, and if you're not carrying paying cargo then there's only one way to pay for it. There are schemes to help fund the cost for young people, but the official purpose of the adult voyages is to raise money to fund the youth work, so cutting those prices would be counterproductive sadly. Even as a volunteer I have to pay (at a reduced rate) for my time on board.

Pete

 

[prv]

With regard to flying over the channel,it's amazing how incredibly empty it is,you could sail to France and back a thousand times blindfolded without risk of collision! Beats me how it's described as "the busiest in the world" etc.

Cos most of the sea is even emptier!

On a square rig voyage a few years ago (Azores -> Southampton, I think) we didn't see another vessel of any kind, on radar or visually, for 8 days straight.

Pete

 

[DJE]

it normally takes me 10-12 hours to cross.

There's an old saying, "Nothing goes to windward like a 747!"

 

[Robert Wilson]

Afraid not.

I'm on the Tall Ships Youth Trust's list of volunteers, and sail with them as a Watch Leader or Deckhand about once a year. Pete

Hi Pete, and all ex-STA "cruisers",
What happened to the Sail Training Association? I know the two schooners were sold-off (scrapped??) SUCH a pity, amazing memories.

I was a trainee on the Churchill in '68 and Watch Leader twice on the Miller in '69. I managed to catch up with some of the permanent/semi-perm crew when the schooners visited my local ports (NE England), but that was LONG ago. Names that spring to mind are Jim the Bosun, Willie the Rigger, Jethroe (Bosun's Mate?) Stan the Cook, Matelot - and MANY more.
In fact so many that I'm going to put a new post on the forum(s) to try to find them.

My three weeks Sail Training were probably the greatest influence on my life - it may not have made me rich or famous, but it taught me how to deal with people (including myself). Through the rough and the smooth (literally) we HAD to get on, and get on with the job.
The sea is a great place to find people's "levels"

Good sailing to you,

Robert (Wilson)

 

[prv]

Hi Pete, and all ex-STA "cruisers",
What happened to the Sail Training Association? I know the two schooners were sold-off (scrapped??) SUCH a pity, amazing memories.

They changed their name to the Tall Ships Youth Trust (apparently for better first impression when bidding for government and charity handouts; some people thought Sail Training Association sounded "elitist" :-/ ) but the organisation continues. The schooners were sold; one was converted into a charter yacht I believe, the other last I heard was laid up on the Fal with similar plans but going nowhere fast. They replaced them with two larger square-rigged ships, Prince William and Stavros S Niarchos, which operated in tandem for 7 or 8 years.

They were always terrible at self-promotion (though I've seen a couple of signs of improvement lately; they're going to have Stavros at the Southampton Boat Show this year, apparently) and struggled to fill the berths as people simply didn't know the opportunity was there. Some of the routes that used to put trainees aboard the schooners went away too, for example large companies sending all their apprentices away for two weeks, no company would do that now. Sailing with empty berths meant they were always strapped for cash, and they ended up selling Prince William to the Pakistani Navy. Controversially, they replaced her with a fleet of ex BT Global Challenge yachts, thus possibly not really saving any money.

I can't speak for the yachts, as I've never sailed on them, but I think much of the schooners' spirit continues on Stavros. I'm told in the early days things were more formal and quasi-military than they are now, but ultimately it's the same organisation doing the same sort of work in a similar way. I saw an old documentary a while ago, filmed on one of the schooners in the 80s, and an awful lot of it seemed very familiar. It can still change some people's lives as it did back then.

Pete

 

[Robert Wilson]

They changed their name to the Tall Ships Youth Trust (apparently for better first impression when bidding for government and charity handouts; some people thought Sail Training Association sounded "elitist" :-/ ) but the organisation continues. The schooners were sold; one was converted into a charter yacht I believe, the other last I heard was laid up on the Fal with similar plans but going nowhere fast. They replaced them with two larger square-rigged ships, Prince William and Stavros S Niarchos, which operated in tandem for 7 or 8 years.

Pete

Hello Pete,
Thanks for that info. Seems like the "romantic days of sail" of the schooners are long gone, but at least the ethos of sail-training lives on.
I particularly liked the bit about "companies and apprentices" - we sent two of our guys on the schooners. One came back a thrilled- exhilarated, and knackered. The other just "came back and drifted".
One guy (Manchester apprentice) on the Churchill Cruise 46 November '68 had never seen the sea, even in pictures. We sailed from the Mersey into one hell of a storm in the Irish Sea. As one might say "Steep Learning Curve" and very rapid too!

Keep up the good work.

Robert

 

[prv]

Seems like the "romantic days of sail" of the schooners are long gone

Well, the schooners have moved on, but to my mind a square-rigger has just as much of that "romance", if not more.

I have a copy of Robert Carter's Windjammers - highly recommended for anyone with an interest in the subject - and while we have better food and living conditions than the old sailing cargo ships, and make shorter voyages (and the mates and bosun are more polite when putting people to work ) there's a lot in that book that was instantly familiar from that day to this.

Pete

 

[Robert Wilson]

Well, the schooners have moved on, but to my mind a square-rigger has just as much of that "romance", if not more.

I have a copy of Robert Carter's Windjammers - highly recommended for anyone with an interest in the subject - and while we have better food and living conditions than the old sailing cargo ships, and make shorter voyages (and the mates and bosun are more polite when putting people to work ) there's a lot in that book that was instantly familiar from that day to this.

Pete

I certainly wasn't trying to disparage the successors to the schooners, FAR from it. It's just that after four decades or more I still feel so much for the experience I had on them.

Bring the square-riggers up her to Gruinard Bay/Ullapool - they'll always be welcome.

Robert

 

[westernman]

Cos most of the sea is even emptier!

On a square rig voyage a few years ago (Azores -> Southampton, I think) we didn't see another vessel of any kind, on radar or visually, for 8 days straight.

Pete

I have yet to ever alter course to avoid another vessel when more than 3 miles offshore - even in this crowed area of the Med.

We see quite a few other boats and some ships (we cross a couple of shipping lines), but we have only once got anything like close to one. In the latter case, they altered course for us (as it should have been under ColRegs).

 

[LittleSister]

With regard to flying over the channel,it's amazing how incredibly empty it is,you could sail to France and back a thousand times blindfolded without risk of collision!

Or do it once with eyes open and have an actual collision!

You would always be at risk of collision. The question is the degrees of risk - How likely to happen, and how bad if it does. Keeping a sharp looking out doesn't affect the latter, but greatly reduces the former.

I read about an American yachtsman (and yachting writer?) who reckoned that their 'busy' west coast shipping represented a negligible risk to yachting, having calculted the odds in great detail based on the number of ships, size, etc. The odds of a collision were incredibly tiny. He reckoned on the basis of this he was happy to sail single handed there and sleep at sea. He changed his view when he was later struck by a ship! (It could be you!)