Engine advice needed (not boat)

[Observer]

SWMBO's Chyser Grand Voyager stopped yesterday. Service agent tells me "number 1 piston broke up and cracked the block". New engine needed at £4k-£5k cost. Car is < 4 years old with 50k miles. I've referred to Chrysler/Jeep customer service who are investigating and getting back to me.

But - from any of you out there who know about engines - is there an argument that this is fair wear and tear or can it ONLY be down to a latent manufacturing defect?

Just so I have an idea how firm I can be.

Thanks in advance.

 

[tcm]

Unfortunately, no - imho it is not invariably the case that a cracked piston etc is *invariably* due to a engine manufacturing defect. However, it is the case that higher quality engineering (materials, manufacturing, assembly) would make such a disaster dramatically less likely. Nonetheless, with (admittedly quite determined) efforts, I think one could blow up most car engines fairly comprehensively and long before 50k, perhaps even within only 50miles.

If I may be so bold - these chryslers will be designed to lug people along at around the 55mph mark I suppose, and I am afraid that wise people such as your good self should have had better guidance - Tony Blair had one of these - need one say more?

The correct vehicle for the modern lead-footed swmbo with kids is a de-badged mercedes estate, plus rear seats, with minimum v6 320 engine or preferably V8 if you plan to drive it too. Even fairly heavily whammed about driving quite fast at every multilane opportunity, ocvcassional silliness like out-accelerating sports cars from the light, hardly ever cleaning it, and even a bit off off-road such as turning off the electronics to perform 360degree spins on the playing fields after a rainy sports day is perfectly fine. So i hear.

 

[nicho]

I think most Manufacturers have an "abnormal" Warranty fallback. No modern engine should fail so catastrophically after only 50K miles, so as long as it has been regularly serviced by a Chrysler Dealer, and no other negligence is discovered (eg driving too quickly through floods which forces water up the air intake into the cylinders and "hydraulics" the engine), you should hopefully get some help. Doubt if it will cost you nothing, but you might get a new "short" engine. Certainly it's worth pursuing, and if they come up with a blank first time around, keep at them until they come to the party

 

[NorthernWave]

I guess it's not a four cylinder?
If it's something like a V6 or V8 it should have the strength to go on for many years if maintained in the good and proper way. Was the oil level checked regularly, has it ever over heated?
Personally I would give them hell even if they offer 50% it's a much better bill than the 4-5k. 50000 miles is around average for the year.
Have you had a second opinion?
It's very easy for these guys to guess when it's not their money they are blowing.

Chris

FIXED IT!!! So good being an inny!!!

 

[mtb]

I had a chrysler voyager 2se petrol with 170 k on the clock !! still running ok when I sold it .
I would have a look on American sites for Chrysler owners , there are lots of people posting stuff and if its a problem other's have had you may stand a chance.

Now in my opinion it's unlikely that a piston will fail breaking the block !!! at 50 k but it can happen a second opinion is the next stage .

so yours is a 3.5 turbo diesel is it or petrol job ?
cheers
Mick

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://homepage.ntlworld.com/boats/>http://homepage.ntlworld.com/boats/</A>

 

[qsiv]

I didnt know you'd watched me last week!

The C32 estate behaves just like you say ,,,

 

[Observer]

Funny you should mention that..

(Oh s***).

SWMBO did drive through a ford just under year ago and the car stopped. Had to have it recovered to the dealer who did - whatever it was. Dealer reckons it's not related but..

Anyway, Chrysler have just called back to say they will make a "contribution" just don't know how much yet.

Thanks.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

C32

Any opinions on the C32 as I'm thinking about buying one? Its been damned with faint praise in this weeks Autocar - well, rubbished really - but the spec looks tasty

 

[Observer]

My car is

a Merc and I've had two of their E class estates - 3L petrols. You're absolutely right - they are great load carriers which behave like a saloon. Thing is with the GV, we can use the three rows of seats and still have loads of luggage space (for push chairs and all the rest of it). The Merc won't do that - unfortunately.

I take it the "so I hear" was a fairly close by sort of "so I hear"?

 

[DIW]

Go for the latent defect and second opinion, 50k is nothing for a modern well maintained motor. Had a similar situation few years back with a Nissan 4x4, Service Manager painted doom and gloom and thousands to sort out, second opinion diagnosed failed oil seal, which it turned out to be.
Capt.

 

[tcm]

Re: Funny you should mention that..

ah, but if through the stream and then all working, that's all fine. The hydraulicing of course happens straight away.

 

[Observer]

Is this right?

So if the workshop fixed the water in the engine from driving through the ford (they said at the time it didn't do any damage) then this piston business is not down to that?

Just ignore me if that's right - I'll go away eventually.

Thanks tcm.

 

[tr7v8]

I'd be looking at getting a motoring org. involved AA or RAC etc. They'll fight your corner and no pistons shouldn't break at this sort of mileage. Some support both technical and legal will help you shout at them!

Jim
--------

 

[Observer]

Jim,

Good idea - thanks.

 

[qsiv]

Re: C32

Now we're really off topic!

I think it's a great compromise (mines an estate). There isnt a comparable BMW (only an M3 saloon), I guess an Rs4 Audi competes (but you cant buy a new one anymore). The RS6 is bigger, as would an E55 be.

After a string of 911 and Range Rovers, with a later ML I find it a great all rounder. I cant quite get my spinnaker in - but almost everything else does fit. The in gear acceleration is just mindblowing. A vanilla 911 has got better dynamics, but doesnt _feel_ so quick (it's obviuosly quicker X country). An F360 felt quicker and better dynamically - but couldnt seat enough people. An M3 is purer, has no estate option and needs to be thrashed to feel as quick.

When all is said and done for a car I can dawdle to work in, or go skiing with or take to the track I find it a great, great compromise. It also doesnt look special so 'les hommes en bleu' are much less interested compared with the 911.

It is a touch thirsty when let off the leash(try 16mpg as an average - the worst I have seen was 6mpg after an admittedly exciting 40 minute run....).

Persuade AMG to let you have a demo, leave fearful pax behind and go and explore!

 

[burgundyben]

so, not only are you now a self elected critic of the style of other peoples classic boats (seemingly with opionions differing to the masses and in fact also unsubstantiated) you now seem fit to pass judgement on the manufacturing, design and materials properties of someone elses car which has unfortunately failed.

What makes you think you are in the slightest bit qualified to comment? do you have a background in statistical analysis of failure modes? Are you a chartered engineer? a member of a proffessional institue such as the IMechE? No, I thought not.

"In your humble opinion" to be honest, I think the forum at large are not interested in your humble opinions anymore, due to the fact that they are worthless.



"Who was he?"

 

[tcm]

Re: Is this right?

hydraulicing is binary - either happens or not. So, after driving thru stream, either the conrods bent bigtime, or you got away with it completely, imho.

When it does happen, water is sucked into the engine and with liquid being very imcompressible (hence used to transmit power in the brakes system frxample) so when the compression cycle starts the engine is stopped fairly dead in its track, cept since it's spinning fast it bends itself attempting to compres the liquid.

I was a bit gluib in earlier responses. Generally speaking, it's pretty outrageous that any modern engine shreds itself after 50k miles, and I'd complain, perhaps emphasising the fragrant and gently-driving wife. And in your preofession with nice dangerous-looking headed paper, you should get lots of assistance. Note that std markup on foreign parts is 100%, so 50% off any quoted price should be easy enough for starters.

 

[Observer]

Enlightenment

Thanks TCM. I think I have that now.

BTW, I think your opinion and comments are mostly fair and helpful - that is when you've extracted tongue from cheek and/or not actively stirring it (not, I suppose, that you're unduly bothered by burgundyben).

 

[NorthernWave]

Re: Is this right?

Buy an MG ZT 385
I think it will be showing the M3-M5 and RS6 a thing or two as it is alot lighter than all the aforementioned yet comes with a rear wheel driven 385bhp V8 lump doing 0-60 in 4.5 seconds and a top end of 170mph.... how much £35000 for a great british bit of engineering. (IMHO) We brits still make the best 'DRIVERS' cars. (thus F1 cars all being british)

Chris

FIXED IT!!! So good being an inny!!!

 

[tcm]

ah well gotcha see

Actually I *do* have a degree in Mech Eng! And I did qualify as a Chartered Engineer, and as for ImechE, i didn't see the value of the 25 quid. I've owned galxies, espaces, driven the GV for a week which are the types of vehicle in question. I drove big motorbikes 1500+miles a week as a despatch driver to fund uni, I've built and wrecked and rebuilt all sorts of engines too, some mine, some for others.

So, let's get back to this "classic" bopat. It remains a fact that your and others repeated use of the word has no bearing on the engineering or manufacturing quality of the product. Neither have denied that your boat contains Fablon, or plastic covered wire for the curtains with little hooks at each end.