Energy Costs In Brighton

[Tinto]

Hi
Having just lost my job I am considering moving out my flat to live aboard full time with Brighton being the likely candidate. I intend to start my own business so will be aboard most of the time.

Could those in the know give me some guidance as to what you spend on energy and what’s the best way to heat the boat long term. Electric heaters or Diesel heating. Obviously need to run the engine periodically to charge batteries and heat water.

is it worth investing is a windturbine and solar panels? If so what would you recommend?

starlight 39 is the boat so it has a bit of insulation.

thanks in advance

 

[ryanroberts]

Domestic use on a boat that's capable of being off the pontoon for any period will be very low other than heating. I wouldn't try to winter in the UK without an electric hook up or a lot better power system than you are likely to find on a 39' yacht. If you are mostly plugged on the dock solar is not worth it when you pay a few pence a unit and is basically useless in winter. Wind power is useless full stop. Not wintered with an eber yet, used to use a multifuel stove for 24/7 winter heat rather than deal with the reliability of diesel heating. Figure I'll use a mixture of blown air diesel and electric, plus a small dehumidifier.

If you really want to overwinter without shore power; make sure your batteries are up to scratch, you have a genset or good alternator and a bullet proof way of heating the boat like solid fuel or drip fed diesel.

 

[laika]

You don't need heating in summer and solar panels won't do you much good in winter if you can just plug in. I think I did the calculations once an electric won out pricewise over diesel but diesel blown air is just much nicer. To be honest I've never really calculated how much we spent on energy because it was way less than a flat and being cold is Bad.

I notice there's a starlight 39 on the west side of the west jetty: is that yours?

 

[ANDY_W]

The biggest cost will be heating and, in the circumstances you describe, the cheapest and most effective way is likely to be a small fan heater with 1kw and 2kw settings. However, be aware that using a fan heater and something like an electric kettle at the same time might cause the supply on the pontoon to trip out.
Hot water for washing up and washing hands, just boil the kettle. For clothes and body, use the marina facilities. Buy a decent battery charger.
If it were me, I would have a standby heating system in case of mains failure. It could be an Eberspacher type or something as simple as a chinese paraffin heater with 20 litres of paraffin.
Make sure that you can have hatches open without letting in the weather. Good ventilation is essential to prevent condensation.
You didn't describe what type of business you intend. If it requires equipment, where will you put it and what will be its power needs?

 

[laika]

The obviously required additional statement to any discussion of running any type of engine, including a diesel heater, while living aboard is invest in a carbon monoxide detector and periodically check it's working.

 

[Yngmar]

While red diesel was available for domestic (heating) purposes at a greatly reduced tax rate, diesel heaters were markedly less expensive to run than electric (and as already pointed, out, more pleasant if installed to bring in dryer outside air). But I think the red diesel situation has changed since we left, or is changing.

Also you will need a dehumidifier for living aboard, which adds about 150-300W constant running (less with a diesel heater). Else you will have massive condensation and mould problems which make life aboard very unpleasant.

Running the engine to charge batteries and heat water is silly and bad for the engine. The shorepower charger should be keeping the batteries charged. Get a calorifier with an electric heating element or learn to live without hot water aboard - the shower block isn't far away.

A electric heating blanket is another cheap and power-efficient way of vastly increasing comfort in winter.

 

[laika]

A electric heating blanket is another cheap and power-efficient way of vastly increasing comfort in winter.

It was only after moving aboard that I really appreciated hot water bottles. I'd regularly work at my laptop with one stuffed up my fleece

 

[Tinto]

Thanks for the replies.

a few notes. I think it would be impossible to stay warm without the use of share power or fossil fuels.I would use renewables to reduce the cost Of shore power.

my work would involve working from a laptop.

a 4kW petrol powered generator was also part of my thinking as well as an enhanced battery bank. The wind turbine and solar panels could be charging the battery set all day for free while I was out during the day.

I was trying to get a feel for how much cash people spend on winter heating before I take the plunge and move It to Brighton

 

[Yngmar]

I think you will find that shore power is a lot cheaper than all the up-front investments into wind and solar installations. Those are generally for when you want to live at anchor or on passage where you can't just plug into cheap and easily available grid power. Solar yield in winter is poor and wind generators often lashed down to avoid wear, damage/hazard in high winds and noise. So it doesn't make sense to upgrade those for living aboard - they're for when you're free to cast off the lines, meanwhile they'll just decay and need maintenance.

Running generators for an extended amount of time is also neither cost-effective nor particularly welcome with the neighbours. The generator will be useful on the odd day where the shorepower goes off for a few hours, which can happen sometimes, but otherwise only cost you upkeep and rust away. You'll need a dry yet ventilated place for a petrol generator though, which can be tricky - the shorepower usually goes off on wet and stormy days.

Before I resuscitated the old Eberspächer that came with the boat, in the coldest months I spent around £100-150 a month on power for keeping a 40 footer comfortable with electric heating and dehumidifier (plus fridge, laptop, etc.). In Summer a fraction of that. I also added some insulation below the waterline, more to reduce condensation in underseat lockers than to limit heat loss (above waterline was already insulated).

 

[Tinto]

The idea behind solar and wind power is that once I have my consultancy established I can the work from anywhere so i would hope to be in the Med by Spring 2022 at the latest

 

[[3889]]

The idea behind solar and wind power is that once I have my consultancy established I can the work from anywhere so i would hope to be in the Med by Spring 2022 at the latest

But that's a while off. Yngmar's advice is solid: think shore power if you are in a marina then worry about off grid solutions for the Med when you get there. Running a petrol genny makes a mockery of renewables offsetting, not a political statement but basic energy efficiency.
My own, relatively brief, experiences of living aboard in northern winters is that keeping warm is easy - down sleeping bag and woolly hat. Keeping the boat free from damp is the issue which is not resolved by electric blankets or hot water bottles.

 

[Yngmar]

Fit the boat out for going when you know you're going. Some people get stuck working just one more year to set up that consultancy or whatever. Ask Laika, who is surely leaving Brighton to go cruising any year now! ?

 

[Tinto]

I like doing projects, so I will do it when I get the urge and have the time. As opposed to have to rush at the end of a marina contract.

Seems sensible to me have a petrol or LPG genny on board to cover for power cuts.

 

[laika]

Seems sensible to me have a petrol or LPG genny on board to cover for power cuts.

A reasonably new laptop battery lasts longer than any power cuts I remember in Brighton. And that's before falling back on the house bank. I have a 400Ah lead acid house bank. If you're really concerned with off-grid power capabilities for your business, think about investing in lithium. Hmm...thinks...could that be a legitimate business expense? Any small business accountants on here care to comment?

Running a generator for any length of time in a marina with liveaboards won't make you very popular.

 

[Seastoke]

Hi
Having just lost my job I am considering moving out my flat to live aboard full time with Brighton being the likely candidate. I intend to start my own business so will be aboard most of the time.

Could those in the know give me some guidance as to what you spend on energy and what’s the best way to heat the boat long term. Electric heaters or Diesel heating. Obviously need to run the engine periodically to charge batteries and heat water.

is it worth investing is a windturbine and solar panels? If so what would you recommend?

starlight 39 is the boat so it has a bit of insulation.

thanks in advance

Well in the winter , walk into town have a coffee , free WiFi free work . Find a free top up cafe job done .

 

[V1701]

I've lived aboard full time for 10 years in a large, well known for liveaboards, UK south coast marina beginning with "B". In a really cold winter month I can spend up to £100 or so on electric which is mainly for heating. My preference is oil filled radiator over fan heater because the radiator is quiet and retains some heat when it cycles off on the thermostat. A dessicant type dehumidifier also vastly increases comfort for not a lot of extra power cost. Only a dessicant type dehumidifier is worth having. If you have shore power that's going to be the most economical way to stay warm. A back up diesel heater in case of loss of shore power might be nice but not essential, drip fed would be my choice. I have tried using a blown air diesel heater but it was significantly more expensive to run than oil rads, uses quite a lot of battery power and also tended to coke up badly in long term use on lower heat settings. So my personal feeling is that blown air isn't perticularly well suited to full time liveaboard use. Electric blanket is really nice to have when it's very cold and uses little power. In the summer you spend very little on electric and as somebody else pointed out bills generally are way less than they'd be for a flat. At a guess I'd say £50 per month averaged out would easily cover gas and electric. Laundry isn't cheap though at about £10 per load for wash & dry but you won't be paying any council tax, water rates or TV licence. The marina will require you to provide a "home" address but this can be your mum's or whatever. Marina wifi is terrible, all you can eat deal including data tethering is what I use, currently £20/month with Three...

If/when you head to the Med you can think about adding solar but it's not necessary in a marina with shore power available. After the end of this year bumming around the med willl be nowhere near as easy as it's been because we'll be subject to Schengen visa rules I'm afraid...

 

[Tinto]

I would imagine a 5pm powercut in the middle of winter would deplete most peoples batteries pretty quick so I expect most would be topping them up with a generator

 

[V1701]

I would imagine a 5pm powercut in the middle of winter would deplete most peoples batteries pretty quick so I expect most would be topping them up with a generator

Most people don't have generators but could use their engines to add power to the batteries in such a scenario. There are very few power cuts, I wouldn't bother spending money on a generator you'd hardly/if ever use. Another thing is to avoid powering anything through an inverter, that's a really inefficient way to power stuff...

 

[Just_sayin']

I'd get a generator. It seems to be what you want.

"a 4kW petrol powered generator was also part of my thinking"

"Seems sensible to me have a petrol or LPG genny on board"

"I expect most would be topping them up with a generator"

 

[nortada]

I'd get a generator. It seems to be what you want.

"a 4kW petrol powered generator was also part of my thinking"

"Seems sensible to me have a petrol or LPG genny on board"

"I expect most would be topping them up with a generator"

So the consensus is Tinto should get a genny. Any recommendations and how expensive?