Enclosed cabin powerboat - kill cord usage debate

[willbank]

Hi all - so this one’s been running around in my mind for a while and I can’t come to a conclusion.

Scenario: 25 foot to 38 foot boat. (Could be more really, doesn’t matter.) Being driven from the internal helm within a totally enclosed cabin with doors shut etc. Proceeding in reasonable chop at 30 knots+.

Do you wear a kill cord?

So, clearly you’re not about to get thrown overboard. Even if you hit a submerged container you will likely get thrown across the cabin but not out of the boat. Unless you’re knocked unconscious you can struggle back to the helm. So the kill cord won’t really be needed to prevent the boat from running out of control.

Equally, in rougher weather getting thrown away from the helm and having a kill cord cut the engines could lead you to being dangerously exposed to beam seas.

In fact, you might say that being able to move around the boat to tend to things was a safety feature and, especially if auto-pilot was engaged, any use of the kill cord would significantly restrict you.

But, the common wisdom would suggest that not wearing a kill cord is unacceptable and dangerous.

What‘s your view?

 

[Greg2]

Never seen a boat with only an internal helm that has a kill cord fitted. We have two Redbay Stormforce 12m cabin RIBs at work and specified external helms in addition to the inside helms - external have kill cords for obvious reasons but the the inside helms don‘t.

 

[Elessar]

Hi all - so this one’s been running around in my mind for a while and I can’t come to a conclusion.

Scenario: 25 foot to 38 foot boat. (Could be more really, doesn’t matter.) Being driven from the internal helm within a totally enclosed cabin with doors shut etc. Proceeding in reasonable chop at 30 knots+.

Do you wear a kill cord?

So, clearly you’re not about to get thrown overboard. Even if you hit a submerged container you will likely get thrown across the cabin but not out of the boat. Unless you’re knocked unconscious you can struggle back to the helm. So the kill cord won’t really be needed to prevent the boat from running out of control.

Equally, in rougher weather getting thrown away from the helm and having a kill cord cut the engines could lead you to being dangerously exposed to beam seas.

In fact, you might say that being able to move around the boat to tend to things was a safety feature and, especially if auto-pilot was engaged, any use of the kill cord would significantly restrict you.

But, the common wisdom would suggest that not wearing a kill cord is unacceptable and dangerous.

What‘s your view?

No. I wouldn’t wear one.
I’d probably have to have it fitted to do so.
And that’s not common sense wisdom it’s herd like scaremongering.
Like wearing a lifejackets on a large boat but not on the pontoon.
Do a personal risk assessment and stay safe.

 

[Rocksteadee]

If you can’t get thrown out not much need to wear one

 

[Easticks28]

The centre where I volunteer has three enclosed cabin motor boats and two open o/b powered safety boats.
The use of kill cord is compulsory in the safety boats, they atr not provided in the cabin boats.
Risk assessments govern every thing we do. We are also an RYA training and Sailability centre . If it was considered to be appropriate for kill cords to be provided in the cabin boats they would be.

 

[willbank]

Yes, interesting. Thanks

 

[paradave]

The key in mine is above head height so not really suitable for a kill cord. Pointless too in an enclosed cabin I’d say.

 

[prv]

But, the common wisdom would suggest that not wearing a kill cord [at an enclosed helm] is unacceptable and dangerous.

That‘s not any “common wisdom” that I’ve ever come across.

Pete

 

[GrahamHR]

20 stone driver dies and collapses over the wheel and throttle of his 30"foot boat. Passengers not strong or fit enough to pull him off. Boat collides with a dense object like Boris.

Same scenario, kill cord , a chance to pull it.

Kill cords should be mandated by law for smaller craft My boat is 30" or thereabouts" I'm not 20 stone though! VP D4-300. It didn't come from the factory with a kill cord. All petrol powered versions of the same boat had kill cords even though most are slower. Nonsensical !

 

[Elessar]

20 stone driver dies and collapses over the wheel and throttle of his 30"foot boat. Passengers not strong or fit enough to pull him off. Boat collides with a dense object like Boris.

Same scenario, kill cord , a chance to pull it.

Kill cords should be mandated by law for smaller craft My boat is 30" or thereabouts" I'm not 20 stone though! VP D4-300. It didn't come from the factory with a kill cord. All petrol powered versions of the same boat had kill cords even though most are slower. Nonsensical !

Happens all the time. Best have a law. Think of all the lives saved.

 

[paradave]

20 stone driver dies and collapses over the wheel and throttle of his 30"foot boat. Passengers not strong or fit enough to pull him off. Boat collides with a dense object like Boris.

That’s ridiculous. Maybe we should all wear helmets all the time too and kill cords in cars and on the oven at home for the same reason?

 

[ari]

Hi all - so this one’s been running around in my mind for a while and I can’t come to a conclusion.

Scenario: 25 foot to 38 foot boat. (Could be more really, doesn’t matter.) Being driven from the internal helm within a totally enclosed cabin with doors shut etc. Proceeding in reasonable chop at 30 knots+.

Do you wear a kill cord?

Is it me or is this a bit of an odd question? Bit like asking whether to wear a kill cord whilst driving a car? How are you going to fall out exactly..?

 

[ari]

20 stone driver dies and collapses over the wheel and throttle of his 30"foot boat. Passengers not strong or fit enough to pull him off. Boat collides with a dense object like Boris.

Same scenario, kill cord , a chance to pull it.

Umm, switch off the ignition perhaps..?

 

[Portofino]

How prevalent is the problem ?

Went for stroll in Windsor park and looked up and saw all the various tail fins of aircraft approaching HRW .
But really you would have thought they would have re routed them incase one drops out of the sky and takes out somebody...perhaps the monarch .In any event it’s a pretty built up area and lets face it they ( airplanes) do seem to drop out of sky .

So theory is one thing ......and it can be made logical as the OP has made it for the enclosed cabin kill cord , but in reality like a plane taking out a huge part of London suburbia .....how often does it happen ?
Until we know that it’s difficult to access what to say re closed cabin kill cords .

 

[LBRodders]

How prevalent is the problem ?

Went for stroll in Windsor park and looked up and saw all the various tail fins of aircraft approaching HRW .
But really you would have thought they would have re routed them incase one drops out of the sky and takes out somebody...perhaps the monarch .In any event it’s a pretty built up area and lets face it they ( airplanes) do seem to drop out of sky .

So theory is one thing ......and it can be made logical as the OP has made it for the enclosed cabin kill cord , but in reality like a plane taking out a huge part of London suburbia .....how often does it happen ?
Until we know that it’s difficult to access what to say re closed cabin kill cords .

You are comparing apples and pears.

When considering functional safety, the term ALARP is used to drive risk 'As low as reasonably practicable'. That morphs in proportionality.

The cost of adding in a kill switch to a new installation is minimal and there is a risk reduction benefit. So a fag packet cost benefit analysis states this would be proportionate and required to claim ALARP.

Diverting planes is disproportionate nor practicable.

For info - we had a new Mercruiser inboard fitted last year and the fit [as per manufacturers instructions] included a kill cord - 27ft Fairline. At the very least it attempts to keep the helm manned when the engine is running.

 

[willbank]

I think @GrahamHR has referred to it - my boat is powered by twin 250hp outboards which come with kill cord switches as standard (given the majority of outboards are clearly fitted to open boats). As such it was fitted and staring at me and therefore my consideration of whether to actually use it!

 

[Whippersnapper]

My boat fits the criteria and has a kill cord fitted. I never use it.

 

[BruceK]

Umm, switch off the ignition perhaps..?

Bingo! But then H&S has to assume we are all a bit thick, like concrete, which isn't all that unfair given the imagined scenario

 

[BruceK]

You are comparing apples and pears.

When considering functional safety, the term ALARP is used to drive risk 'As low as reasonably practicable'. That morphs in proportionality.

The cost of adding in a kill switch to a new installation is minimal and there is a risk reduction benefit. So a fag packet cost benefit analysis states this would be proportionate and required to claim ALARP.

Diverting planes is disproportionate nor practicable.

For info - we had a new Mercruiser inboard fitted last year and the fit [as per manufacturers instructions] included a kill cord - 27ft Fairline. At the very least it attempts to keep the helm manned when the engine is running.

The engine manufacturer would. He has to as he doesnt know your boat. But wait for the day you are going balls to the wall and you accidentally cut the engine. Have you read the manual where it warns against doing this and the dire consequences of doing so?


Edit. In case you were wondering and hadn't your manual is full of these little gems






ad naseum

 

[ari]

You are comparing apples and pears.

When considering functional safety, the term ALARP is used to drive risk 'As low as reasonably practicable'. That morphs in proportionality.

The cost of adding in a kill switch to a new installation is minimal and there is a risk reduction benefit. So a fag packet cost benefit analysis states this would be proportionate and required to claim ALARP.

Diverting planes is disproportionate nor practicable.

For info - we had a new Mercruiser inboard fitted last year and the fit [as per manufacturers instructions] included a kill cord - 27ft Fairline. At the very least it attempts to keep the helm manned when the engine is running.

The cost of wearing a crash helmet is minimal too, but you wouldn't wear them whilst sat inside a wheelhouse cruiser for the one in a billion chance that it might be beneficial in the event of a 'perfect storm' of an unseen rogue wave just happening to hit the boat at just the right angle with just the right amount of force to bang your head against the side window just hard enough to knock you out just long enough to crash into a floating petrol tanker full of nuns and puppies.

I think that's the point Portofino is making. If you want to dial out ALL risk to the point of wearing a kill cord whilst sat in an enclosed wheelhouse of a circa 30ft boat at 30 knots, then you'd better start diverting planes away from cities and maybe limiting all road transport and trains to 10mph.