Electronic Ignition

[Dave_Knowles]

Has anyone fitted electronic ignition to their engine and if so what type?


<hr width=100% size=1>Take care.

Dave

Dave Knowles
Southampton - UK

http://www.MyCleopatra.co.uk

 

[ccscott49]

What engine dave? Theres a few makes available, I`ve fitted a few, but the best one, the name escapes me, it will come back, but power coil was the type I used for racing, I`ll remember give me a moment or three.

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[Dave_Knowles]

It's for a Volvo 151A four cylinder. The problem I have is that the posts in the distributort cap are getting pitted so is the rotor arm and points. They have only done about 50 hours so I thought electronic ignition would help as new bits are so expensive.

<hr width=100% size=1>Take care.

Dave

Dave Knowles
Southampton - UK

http://www.MyCleopatra.co.uk

 

[ccscott49]

The electronic ignition will solve the points problem as they only carry minute amounts of current with electronic ignition and with some systems they are done away with completely (luminition ) for one. The pitting inside the cap and rotor arm, is normal and will not harm the cap or arm, the spark has to "jump" the gap between arm and cap, as it does so, it burns and carbonises the brass/aluminium, nothing to worry about. On cars we used to clean the rotor arm, by rubbing it against a tyre, it comes up a treat! Electronic ignition is a boon, but will not stop this cap/arm burning. I would have thought that engine would already have it? There is another reason points (well a few actually) get pitted, one is a duff condensor, which is there puerly to stop or minimise that happening, it`s also there to give a rapid breakdown of the voltage in the primary of the coil, but we wont go into that! I will do a few checks and try to get back to you on the ignition front. Hope this is helpful.

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[Dave_Knowles]

Colin,

I did have just an ordinary car coil which I put on. I have now bought the one recomended which has an internal resistor. What would be the difference and what does the internal resistor do.?

The reasons for these questions isn that I had a breakdown which I am sure is ignition and want to try and avoid another.

<hr width=100% size=1>Take care.

Dave

Dave Knowles
Southampton - UK

http://www.MyCleopatra.co.uk

 

[ccscott49]

Normally a coil with resisitor built in, is a 6 volt coil, then when you need a big fat spark, for starting, a clever bit of wiring, when engaing the starter, bypasses the resistor, giving 12 volts to the 6 volt coil, hence effin big sparks, to start the engine, when you disengage the starter, the coil resorts to 6 volt oeration through the resistor and normal sparks, still pretty big!

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[Dave_Knowles]

What happens then if you put on a 12 volt coil as I did. It seemed to start and run ok? Both the Volvo colis in the Keypart book have resistors, one internally and one externally. The coil they sent me is also much heavier than the standard car one I fitted.

<hr width=100% size=1>Take care.

Dave

Dave Knowles
Southampton - UK

http://www.MyCleopatra.co.uk

 

[Dave1258]

Tis my freind because the coils you now are the proud owner of contain more windings, and are oil filled to help keep them cool, hence the extra weight!


Regards Dave

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[oldharry]

basically there are 2 types of electronic ignition. Usually retro fitted ones use the existing contact breaker arrangement to trigger the spark, using the existing speed related ignition advance mechanism. With a standard coil they do give improved reliability becasue the contact breaker now carries a very small current with ,much reduced sparking.

Breakerless ignition using either an optical or magnetic trigger is usually more difficult to retro fit unless it is made for the specific engine it is being fitted to, and is usually more expensive, but with a further gain in reliability, as there are no mechanical switches in the circuit - the whole thing being done electronically. Ignition advance is normally still mechanical, but in the more advanced versions even that is acheived electronically, and can therefore be more specific to the operational and load condition of the engine. The E.M.U. of a modern car engine incorporates the ignition advance which, by using various sensors can match much more precisiely the operational engine load demands. However adapting a mechanical system to a fully controlled electronic one is usually quite a major operation, and the marginal gains acheived by retrofitting anything so sophisticated are usually substantially outweighed by the difficulty and cost.

<hr width=100% size=1><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by oldharry on 06/12/2003 21:30 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[ccscott49]

If you put a 12 volt coil on a 12 volt system, no problems, if you put a 6 volt coil on 12 volts, it will eventually breal down and pack in, after getting very warm! Why the coil should be heavier, I dont know, unless the marine one has better vibration and waterproofing. Does your coil have four connections? One for the HT lead and a small one for the distributor, with two small ones to the other side of the coil on seperate connections? For it to be a 6volt, 12 volt boost coil, it should have. A basic coil points system is a good system, as long as it`s kept in good condition, high revving engines, need to go to electronic, due usually to "points bounce" and the limitations of fast current build up and collapse, which is essential to a good spark at the plugs. Fit a contactless system, then you will know all that side of the system is good. The powercoil I was talking about, was an electronic system, with coil and black box all in one and matched to each other. I still cant remember the name of the system I always used, it`ll come! Boyer bransden, make a superb system for motorbikes, with magnetic proximity sensor, dont know if they do one for cars. Lumenition was a very good system also.

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[Dave_Knowles]

Do you think that an electronic ignition system for a car will hold up ok in a marine environment?

<hr width=100% size=1>Take care.

Dave

Dave Knowles
Southampton - UK

http://www.MyCleopatra.co.uk

 

[ccscott49]

They are normally a sealed unit, waterproof for fitting under the bonnet, so I would say they would be fine. I wouldn`t hesitate to fit one.

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[tr7v8]

Dave, mates with TR7 2litres (V8s have leccy ignition as original fit) generally fit one of 2 units either the Aldon ignitor
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.aldonauto.co.uk/shop/asp/product.asp?product=117>http://www.aldonauto.co.uk/shop/asp/product.asp?product=117</A> & click Aldon Products/original Aldon Ignitor or the Lumenition. The advantage of the Aldon ignitor is that it's a unit about the size of your little finger whch is totally potted in epoxy and mounts where the points baseplate used to go. It has 2 wires coming out which go to the coil and a magnetic trigger plate that goes under the rotor arm. It is actually a USA unit called the Pertronix badged and UK ised. The Lumenition is a seperate module which if your boat layout is anything like mine would be a problem to mount. I would convert mine to Aldon but I'd neeed 2 at £ 80ish each.

<hr width=100% size=1>Jim

Draco 2500

 

[ccscott49]

I knew I would remember eventually, Microdynamics, was the name of the units I used to race with, on my volvo engined marcos, never had a minutes trouble with it and left the points in place, closed the gap and readjusted the timing to suit the narrow points gap, put new points in and forget it! You can even get a rev limiter on them. Which was very useful when I missed a gear with an expensive six cyinder volvo!

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[BarryH]

As Colin has already said. The corrosion or pitting is to be expected on the dizzy and rotor parts. Its nothing to worry about. The condenser should stop the points from pitting and burning. You do need to make sure that the contact faces of the point contact each other squarely and parrallel.

I don't think that a lectronic system will make much difference to the running of your lump. The dizzy has no vacum advance system The only advace the ignition gets is from the centrifugal weights. The max advance is achieved at around 2700-3000 rpm.
A properly set up standard system will work fine. The bits such as points/condenser/rotor are the same as the normal car ones. The system is designed to use a 12v coil. Lucas list the DLB101 for the fourpot AQ series petrols. It shouldn't set you back more than about 15 quid from yer local car place. The marine dizzy cap can be ordered thru a decent motor factor and will cost you about 25 quid rather than the stupid amount the marine dealers want.

I've tried a few leccy ignition systems on my engine. None of them gave any better running and one actually made things worse. Most are designed for cars where engine revs arn't as constant as they are in a boat. Plus the max advance is achieved quicker than it is in car aplications.
When setting the ignition timing on your engine, I've found it best to set intial static with the engine not running. Then run the thing up to working temp and use a good strobe to set the timing. On your engine this should be around 34-36 degrees at 3500 rpm.

Good quality silicon supressed leads are a must on the engine. I've also found that repositioning the coil to keep the HT lead shorter than the standard helps. Dunno why but it does. Hope this helps a little bit. I listed all the part numbers on the Volpen users site for the parts you can get from the car factors.

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[Dave_Knowles]

I am having trouble with a distributor cap from my local motor factor. The problem is identifying the one I have for it has two screws that hold it down rather than clips. In the manuals I have they show the clip version. I presume that the distributor is bosch.

<hr width=100% size=1>Take care.

Dave

Dave Knowles
Southampton - UK

http://www.MyCleopatra.co.uk

 

[BarryH]

If you've got the original Bosch cap it should have the number on the top, it'll start 1234................something. All the dizzies were Bosch. I put the part numbers of the Volpen site under petrol engines AQ145.
If you have probs let me know. I have a couple of contacts that I can get them from at reasonable prices.

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[Dave_Knowles]

Thanks Barry I will have another look on the cap and see if there is a number.

<hr width=100% size=1>Take care.

Dave

Dave Knowles
Southampton - UK

http://www.MyCleopatra.co.uk

 

[BarryH]

OK did some digging. The dizzy cap number is (Bosch) 1235 522 306. The points you can use in there are DSB432C, Condenser is DSB474C both lucas parts. The rotor arm is a bit of an oddball, but I've found that another Bosch part 1234332215(441) fits the bill or you could use Intermotor 471105(RS) which is suppressed. All those are readily available at the local car place, apart from the cap. Intermotor used to do a replacement for it but stopped doing it a couple of years ago.

I have used a dizzy from a car as a stopgap. You have to remove the vac advance and change the bobweight springs to give the proper advance. Also use a bit of sealent round the base of the cap and seal the orifice left by the vac advance removal. All purely to spark protect it. I done it as a stop gap. I wouldn't recommend running it all the time.

Hope this helps, as I said if you have probs wiv the cap give me a shout.

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[stuartw]

Yes, I have converted a 2.0Ltr, 4cyl, BMW marine engine to electronic ignition.
I used an ignition amplifier from a Ford Sierra ( 10 a penny in a breakers yard). This is a moulded block on a heat sink with an 8 way connector. I also had part of the Sierra's wiring loom, so I would have the connectors, ie from the amplifier to the coil, and the amplifier to the distributor trigger connection.

I also had to change the distributor, from the original Bosch contact breaker type, to a Bosch inductive type, off a later 4 cyl BMW car. This was the main expense, costing £50 for a pair of them. (twin engines)

The only slight problem I had, was the initial static timing setting, as the two different Bosch distributors had different degress of advance. But with the aid of a strobe, I got it spot on.
The result was fantastic. Instant starting, especially on a low battery. Much better running, and possibly better fuel consumption.
The reason I did this, was very similar to you. I had a capacitor go on one engine, and I refused to pay £20 for a proper one. So I put a £5 car type in, which ran ok, but I was always nervous of it happening again, hence the change. It was well worth it.


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