Electrics Upgrade

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Andy and Lyn

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So now I'm working on upgrading the electrical system! (Westerley Renown). Currently in S France - heading for Greece in the spring!!

Current (refined) plan is to install another battery.
Will then have 1 for engine start / 2 ships batteries.
Plan is to have 2 x VICTRON GEL 100 amp ships batteries?? .

Solar Panel (50w) - to keep the batteries up
New battery charger - if/when in marina and have shore-power

currently have only a cool box but having read extensively on this site it makes sense for a fridge. Obviously got to fit in with above - so must be economical and "smallish" to fit in available space. Any suggestions on type/make etc.?

Will be planning to keep my "manual" windlass - driven by cost mainly. Any comments or is that not a good plan.
 
Andy and Lyn said:
Current (refined) plan is to install another battery.
Will then have 1 for engine start / 2 ships batteries.
Plan is to have 2 x VICTRON GEL 100 amp ships batteries?? .

Solar Panel (50w) - to keep the batteries up
New battery charger - if/when in marina and have shore-power
Click to expand...

Ships batteries - I wouldn't ever have another gel battery for deep cycling. They cannot take high charge rates for long. Buy unsealed wet acid ones that you can top up. I add water about three times per season. If you can fit three in instead you will notice the benefit. I have converted my 2 + 1 battery setup to 3 + 1 by putting a small AGM starter battery in the shaft tunnel and connecting all three 110 Ah installed ones for domestic use.

50 watts of solar panel will not run a refrigerator, even a small one. I had 70 watts of solar, insufficient outside of July. I now have 120 watts, which drives my 80 litre fridge pretty well.

Shore power is very rare in Greece, unless you want to pay the exaggerated fees of Gouvia and Levkas. Don't bother. Aim to be completely sufficent on 12 volts if you can afford it.
 
Andy and Lyn said:
So now I'm working on upgrading the electrical system! (Westerley Renown). Currently in S France - heading for Greece in the spring!!

Current (refined) plan is to install another battery.
Will then have 1 for engine start / 2 ships batteries.
Plan is to have 2 x VICTRON GEL 100 amp ships batteries?? .

Solar Panel (50w) - to keep the batteries up
New battery charger - if/when in marina and have shore-power

currently have only a cool box but having read extensively on this site it makes sense for a fridge. Obviously got to fit in with above - so must be economical and "smallish" to fit in available space. Any suggestions on type/make etc.?

Will be planning to keep my "manual" windlass - driven by cost mainly. Any comments or is that not a good plan.
Click to expand...

I agree with Vyv about the batteries - and because they are pretty standard "truck" batteries, you will probably be able to replace them anywhere, where as Gel is sometimes a bit of a problem I understand.

As far as your fridge goes, it must be as efficient as possible. I think a minimum of 3 inches of insulation all round, and 4 if you have the space. If it is designed as a box, you can get wire baskets made up, which makes getting at things much easier, which means you could get away with an 80 ltr - 100 ltr fridge. An efficient compressor and keel cooler are also probably worth their weight in gold. I know that this is probably an expensive solution, but it will mean that you have a chance in hell of not having to charge for hours everyday, and therefore worth the money.

At the risk of starting an anchor debate, if you have a standard CQR type, think about changing it. - I have no experience of the med yet, except for charter, and I would now refuse to charter if they supplied a CQR!!!!!
 
Andy and Lyn said:
thanks for all the tips guys - on the CQR front I have a lovely big one swinging from the bow in the breeze. I heard a couple of times now that it probably wont do the job - any tips on what type to get for a 32 ft Westerley Ketch with 4.5 ton displacement?
Click to expand...

Currently the most common one is probably the Delta - 16kg is the right size for you and Danforth type for a kedge/stern anchor. Britanny type anchors are also popular, particularly on French built charter boats. I have just changed from a CQR type to a Delta. Problem with the CQR is poor cutting through weed and digging into hard clay bottoms - many of the anchorages in Greece are of this type.
 
I'd second most of Vyv's comments - 100 watts struggles to cope with my normal daily use including the fridge. I'd part company with him on the desirability of water cooling for the compressor - properly ducted air-cooling is perfectly satisfactory.
Add in a computer and Huawei modem and one needs another 200 watts.

Gel batteries are expensive, unsatisfactory in being slow to charge and slow to give up their power. Of course if you intend to sail inverted they have certain advantages. Best are heavy duty industrial or traction batteries such as golf-cart ones.
The "best" battery I've bought recently was a 110AH one in Ajaccio for €105. It beats the AC Delco Freedom battery into a cocked hat.

If a genuine CQR and you know how to anchor, it's absolutely satisfactory and better in coarse sand/shingle than any other. If you have lots of money, you may want to buy a more "idiot-proof" anchor, but besides being exorbitantly priced many now have QAS problems as they're being produced in China. You do need at least 2 and probably 3 anchors - I have a Delta rigged at the stern and a Danforth as an additional kedge.

I'd definitely suggest a smart regulator - having used the Adverc since it was first produced I'm biassed - and an uprated alternator (mine is a 100 amp).

Bimini for shade and a wind scoop for the forehatch or you'll roast and you might consider individual computer fans for cooling you in the berths.

A number of ports offer shore-power, apart from the excessively priced marinas Vyv mentions, but you'll have to pay for that and the water you use, usually about €5/night for each.
 
Last edited:
charles_reed said:
properly ducted air-cooling is perfectly satisfactory.

You do need at least 2 and probably 3 anchors - I have a Delta rigged at the stern and a Danforth as an additional kedge.

I'd definitely suggest a smart regulator - having used the Adverc since it was first produced I'm biassed - and an uprated alternator (mine is a 100 amp).

Bimini for shade and a wind scoop for the forehatch or you'll roast and you might consider individual computer fans for cooling you in the berths.
Click to expand...

Properly ducted was most of my problem - the air flow was tortuous and pretty inefficient. FWIW Nigel Calder is a strong advocate of water cooling for refrigeration and my experience certainly doesn't prove him wrong.

Incidentally, re a question elsewhere, a keel cooler is a means of circulating the refrigerant, or indirect water cooling, to outside the boat where heat exchange is more efficient.

Agree on anchors (mostly!) I have a Rocna as my bower, which has proved to be excellent. The Delta it replaced is kept as a spare. My kedge is a Fortress. I also have a small grapnel that gets used occasionally.

I bought a Sterling seven years ago, which has performed very well, so no complaints. Last year I bought a volt/amp meter, a most useful addition and recommended.

We would say that a bimini is essential, although appreciating that they cannot always be used when sailing. It really does become unacceptably hot at times.

We bought one of the fans sold by Salty John last year and find it a real bonus.
 
Andy and Lyn said:
Oh, and one other thing - "what's a keel cooler" ??
Click to expand...

A lump of sintered bronze encasing a loop of the refridgerant return pipe. The lump sits outside the hull in the water and the pipes pass through the hull. Hot refridgerant on the way back from the evaporator to the compressor goes via the keel cooler. Since its in the water ( say 20 - 25 degrees in the med ) you already have a massive benefit in cooling compared to the the air temp down below in high 30's to 40's. additionally water is much more effective at cooling than air. Some systems do not use ( or fit ) a fan to the compressor heat exchanger when a keel cooler is fitted. The resulting power savings can be 20% or more.

I kept a fan cooled compressor unit so that i can run the fridge when ashore, just turn off the fan when afloat.
 
Hi, having spent the past two summers and one winter in the Ionian living on our westerly I can confirm that you certainly need more than 200 amp battery storage as in effect you can only use 50% of that. We have at present 280 amps battery bank with 1 Rutland wind gen and a 100 watt Solar panel which we found was not sufficient to keep our beer cold 24/7 at anchor. After advice and having seen it work we are going to upgrade our battery bank to 6v wet batteries, add a further 100watt solar panel and a solar boost regulator. Also a good idea might be to fit a water cooled fridge, you can now get easy fit ass, the cooling coil goes into your existing galley sink seacock (a larger hole is required). A good 40/50 amp charger is also required to keep your batteries in good health when on shore power. No need to pay the high costs of berthing in Levkas or Gouvia type marinas, go mid week onto the charter pontoons at 10 euro per night with elec and water included.
 
Ok - thanks chaps for the local anchor advice.
I'll see if I can get a DELTA 16 kg - keep the CQR in the locker and use my DANFORTH as a kedge! That should do the trick.

having had all the chain out i probably need to renew it - its looking well past it sell by date with heavy corrosion.
Currently have about 35 metres - think I might need more!!

Gonna go for 50 metres with the DELTA as a bower. and 10 m with 50M of warp on the kedge.

8mm galvenised/ Any thoughts??
 
Andy and Lyn said:
Ok - thanks chaps for the local anchor advice.
I'll see if I can get a DELTA 16 kg - keep the CQR in the locker and use my DANFORTH as a kedge! That should do the trick.

having had all the chain out i probably need to renew it - its looking well past it sell by date with heavy corrosion.
Currently have about 35 metres - think I might need more!!

Gonna go for 50 metres with the DELTA as a bower. and 10 m with 50M of warp on the kedge.

8mm galvenised/ Any thoughts??
Click to expand...

Is 50 meters enough on the bower? in bad weather you may want to put out 5 to 1, which will allow you anchor only in 10 meters of water - and thats not counting the freeboard. I would go for 80 mtrs - wait for Vyv to come back on this one, as he has more experience.........
 
I have 50 metres of 8mm chain and 30 metres of anchorplait spliced onto that. Chain is usually sufficient as most harbour anchorages are shallow (3 metresor so) and bay anchorages also tend to be on shallow ledges. Remember you don't have to allow for tides and often do not swing but lie with a stern line to shore or your kedge.
 
Chris_Robb said:
Is 50 meters enough on the bower? in bad weather you may want to put out 5 to 1, which will allow you anchor only in 10 meters of water - and thats not counting the freeboard. I would go for 80 mtrs - wait for Vyv to come back on this one, as he has more experience.........
Click to expand...

I previously had 50 metres which was always sufficient on Atlantic coasts. Once in the Med there have been occasions when we were forced to anchor in 17 - 19 metres, with no alternative. We managed with our 50 metres but it was tight. That chain was old and joined with two cheapo C-links, so on finding out how reliable they were I decided to upgrade the chain. I bought 60 metres and have the option of extending with rope. I have never needed all of the chain so far in Italy and Greece when free anchoring but I have deployed the lot when stern-to in adverse conditions, deep water or when my judgement of 3 - 4 boat lengths erred on the high side.
 
Andy and Lyn said:
Ok - thanks chaps for the local anchor advice.
I'll see if I can get a DELTA 16 kg - keep the CQR in the locker and use my DANFORTH as a kedge! That should do the trick.

having had all the chain out i probably need to renew it - its looking well past it sell by date with heavy corrosion.
Currently have about 35 metres - think I might need more!!

Gonna go for 50 metres with the DELTA as a bower. and 10 m with 50M of warp on the kedge.

8mm galvenised/ Any thoughts??
Click to expand...

If you are looking for a supplier Bradney are great. Their 8mm fits both lewmar and lofrans windlass. Not sure about how they will get the chain to you.

http://www.bradneychain.com/
 
I have seen a number of very good anchor winches built from a small reduction box and starter motor, belt driven.

The whole thing fits under a fibreglass box that hinges back when in use. Cheap to build, replacement parts are also cheap and you have the advantage of the belt drive acting as an overload protection.

Keep an eye out for parts.
 
Guys

In my opinion you have been given some great advice here. All I would add from my own experience is buy this book - its the boatowners - liveaboard,s bible.

Nigel Calder's Boatowners Mechanical and Electrical Manual

http://www.amazon.com/Boatowners-Mechanical-Electrical-Manual-Essential/dp/007009618X

Best money you will ever spend. Listen particularly to his advice on a balanced electrical system.

Good luck with your plans
 
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