Electric winches. Are they

[Becky]

easy to fit? Do they have to extend far below the winch base. And are they VERY expensive?

And perhaps are they worth having?

I will admit to finding winding in the genny in anything of a breeze quite hard, so wondered if an electric winch would be the answer.

Or is there an alternative, without going to the gym in my spare time?

 

[eidiohir]

You could try luffing up a bit to take the strain off if you are not racing?

 

[Channel Ribs]

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easy to fit?

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Fairly, a 3 out of 10. Mind you power might be a problem if you do not have a spare battery.

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Do they have to extend far below the winch base.

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Yep.

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And are they VERY expensive?

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Fairly, but once they are in they give good service.

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And perhaps are they worth having?

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Yep. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Becky]

I do.

But usually I am on the helm and HWMBO is the one winding. But as the years go by, he won't be able to keep this up, so I thought that we could use some extra power.

 

[Norman_E]

I have one, which is great for hauling up the main halyard, but I do not use it for furling the genoa because it has so much power it could do damage. Furling the genoa can be hard work in strong wind, and luffing up does reduce the effort a bit, and is the only option if you have been sailing on genoa alone. Turning so that the wind is on the quarter with the main shielding and depowering the genoa, (which also reduces the apparant wind speed) actually seems to make it easier and avoids getting such a tight wrap, so that is what I normally do if there is a fair amount of wind.

 

[Becky]

I want a powered winch to TRIM the genoa, not furl it.

We have Lewmar 44s at the moment, and they are pretty good, but still it is very hard to short-tack the boat in any breeze. So we try and avoid that sort of sailing. That is why I would appreciate some idea of how effective powered winches are. And some idea of cost.

We have plenty of reserve battery power.

 

[FullCircle]

Becky, ther has been a recent (in the last 2 years) article in PBO about a couple in their autumn who fitted the Harken conversion, 44s I think(by coincidence) They rated them highly.
They were about 1400 Quid all in I think.

There has also been a guy who is using a Makita 24v rechargable power wrench with a winch top adapter (made from a winch handle and a steadying lever, but I cannot remember the web address where I saw it. Try Sailnet. This was a substitute for an American product called the Winch Buddy which is the same. Use it, and then recharge it later. Worked out about 400 quid if I recall, and you only need one of them!

 

[alec]

I have no experience of using them myself but know people who have used them.

As expected, they are generally large boats that don't 'do' short tacking. It is quite easy apparently to do yourself and the boat serious damage if you do not fully concentrate.

I know what you mean though, it's often 'that last bit' where you need the power.
However, it's nice to keep our fingers for the whole period of existence and it's a personal decision.

As mentioned, they seem to work well for halyards and when lots of crew are available for sheet winches. When there's just two of you, and when you are feeling a bit knackered, accidents I suppose are more likely to happen.

 

[Richard10002]

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You could try luffing up a bit to take the strain off if you are not racing?

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Or bearing away - bearing away means the sail doesnt flap, so the crew member who is sheeting the genny doesnt feel bad or under pressure because the sail is flapping.

I often take a bit longer to come through the wind to give the crew a bit longer to haul it in by hand, then I bear away to give them a chance, and to get some speed up.

I'm a bit concerned that electric winches could do some damage by hauling things in too tightly.

 

[Salty John]

I think they are great. I sail a friends Amel Maramu in Florida with electric everything on it - furling, reefing, hoisting and trimming. I have no idea what winch motors cost to retrofit but they are the answer for the muscularly challenged. As I'm always He Who Stands At The Wheel it's my crew that would benefit, which is why I've never considered them for my own boats.
An alternative is a geared winch handle. I've never used one but I've seen tham for sale - quite expensive, £300?, but you only need one. Until you drop it overboard.

 

[Anonymous]

Loads of good input already but please note that since they draw a very high current you will need heavy expensive cable, terminals and fuses or breakers. Also some means to clip the cables back. After you've got the price from the chandler, make sure you add the cost of the other stuff before making a decision.

Also, with heavy cable, you will need heavy duty crimps so you might need to buy or hire a professional crimper for that size of crimp - they are not cheap. If you are not pretty good with electrics give serious consideration to having them fitted professionally.

I'd love them but sadly can't justify the cost /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[eidiohir]

Just read your profile you're going blue water sailing?I don't know from personal experience but I would think that short tacking isn't going to be a major problem and other bits of gear may be more important?
What about a longer winch handle to give more power or am I talking out of the top of my head again

 

[rogerthebodger]

I have 2 lewmar 48 with 24v motor that came with the hull I am currently fitting out. I replaced these with Andersen because the lewmar motors took up too much room inside the rear cabin and the Andersen have a motor that fits between the top of the deck and the underside of the winch so no motor inside the cabin and will be easy to retrofit.

" Are they expensive" Yes very but as you get older can extend sailing pleasure by taking the strain out of heavy jobs IMHO.

Have a look here

 

[Norman_E]

The problem with electric winches can be having too much power. If you have 44 genoa winches on a Moody 37, you have more power per square metre of sail area than I do with 53s on my boat. I am not very strong, and have my left arm seriously weakened by old injuries, but have no difficulty getting the Genoa properly trimmed. On my boat the sheets lead straight from the genoa track cars to the winches. If it is hard work on your boat it may be because the genoa sheets are led round a turning block (are they?). Even if the blocks run freely without a load on them, they may be adding a great deal of friction under load from the sheets. Check that out before you spend serious money on electric winches.

 

[Skyva_2]

They do sound a great idea but I am aware of a friend who was told to whack on more power to unfurl a foresail and the forestay came off a Bowman 48. The halyard had been twisted.

Fortunately they were heading downwind at the time.

 

[Fergus]

Buy a right angle cordless drill with a winch bit on the end - power any winch on your boat! Sailfree has one and I've just bought one (mainly for mainsail hallyard but also for short tacking when it's just me and SWMBO)

 

[rudolph_hart]

We have them, and they have transformed our sailing (we don't race any more).

They are Harken 42s and their location (on coaming either side of wheel) is part of the design of the boat (Dehler 35).

All control lines (i.e. excl. Spi & Jib halyards & rod kicker) are led back to them and their clutches. We can hoist, sheet, reef & drop the Main, and sheet & furl the Jib while at the helm.

Their great power needs careful use, particularly when main luff tensioning & jib furling, because you get no 'feel' for the load on them (only what you can hear!)

Although they have 2 speeds, they are too slow for 'fast' jobs, such as kite hoisting (unless in stops or snuffer), but these tend to be lighter loads anyway.

As regards installation, each winch motor is about the same size as an engine starter motor, but there is plenty of room fore/aft under the hollow of the coaming. Cables are about the same size as an engine starter motor, with 90amp breakers and two double cockpit buttons for each winch (one set on coaming below winch for operation from the cockpit, one set on binnacle for operation behind wheel).

We have 2x 135Ah domestic batteries, plus one engine start.

I hope this is helpful.

 

[Goldie]

Becky,

I have no experience of electrically powered winches, but SWMBO swears by her Easy-Winch handle. It's a 4:1 geared winch handle effectively, which reduces the effort (either direction) enormously. They're not cheap but are now back in production (at just over £300 I think) and extremely robust. Ours is 10 years old and literally as good as new. The big advantage is that you just move it from winch to winch, wind normally until it's hard work, and then pop the Easy-Winch in. As a ketch with 9 winches, it worked out a lot cheaper for us than changing or powering winches and of course, the're's no potential flat battery problem. I think you're based close to us (I live 5 miles from Gosport) so you'd be welcome to borrow it to try. The Easy-winch is now back in production after a gap of several years and I can thoroughly recommend it.

 

[Sailfree]

I looked into this and have posted before about it. About Feb07

Americans like power winches. American hate going on holiday on charter boats and find they don't have power winches.

Americans solve the problem by taking a 28V Milwaukee battery powered right angled drill. It has 600lbins of torque and does the job very well on my 43' boat. You also need to buy the winch adapter bit. The drill is only available in the USA but they will send it over if ordered of a USA tool website. Being USA its 110V, I didn't risk whether the charger would work so bought a USA mains converter from Maplins about £30 IIRC. Total cost therefore of the bit of kit is about £400. I wanted an electric halyard winch but on our charter boat the risk of someone damaging the sail was too great.

Beware of smaller drills, they may work on a much smaller boat but the next most powerful one is a DeWalt right angle drill that is sold in the UK but only produces 300lbins of torque (half the Milwaukee). I would only recommend using a right angle drill when torque is the main factor.

Our sailing on holiday consists of leaving SWMBO in bed until about 11.00 or 12.00 so sailing singlehanded I find it great. I tend to only use it for hoisting or reefing the main but have tried it on the genoa and it works fine.

Fergus also bought one and note that he has also posted on this thread.

 

[pappaecho]

Maybe the genny is oversailed for the wind conditions if you are finding it hard with L44's?