eBorders Back on the Cards?

[MY littlebirchwoo]

After following the debate regarding the UKBA and watching with interest what has been discussed in the debates, one of the things that has been specifically targeted is the relaxation of several of the previous governments procedures and proposals - one of which is the eBorders program, which today, has also been qualified to include TRAVEL TO AND FROM UK PORTS AND AIRPORTS - even though the departure/destination is also within the UK!!!!

This seems a frightening reversal of all the goodwork that has been done and looks to be implemented as a knee-jerk reaction

I sincerely hope it doesn't but sadly, it has raised its ugly head

Does anyone have anymore information regarding this - and did I really hear what I heard, in demands, from the Shadow Home Secretary in response to the Home Secretary's silence!!!

 

[Searush]

Well, if Alex Salmond gets his way, you'll need a passpot to get in & out of Scotland anyway.

But immigration controls set up for ferry trips to IoM, Channel Is, Scillies, Shetland, Orkney, Hebrides, Mull & Skye? Yeah, that'll save us a fortune won't it.

 

[rafiki_]

Well, if Alex Salmond gets his way, you'll need a passpot to get in & out of Scotland anyway.

But immigration controls set up for ferry trips to IoM, Channel Is, Scillies, Shetland, Orkney, Hebrides, Mull & Skye? Yeah, that'll save us a fortune won't it.

Albert, did you mean passpot or p!sspot?

 

[Searush]

Albert, did you mean passpot or p!sspot?

Damn,that's my r's not working again. Nurse! NURSE! Where's my laxative?

 

[Wiggo]

Would that include trips like the Woolwich ferry? I'd love to see UKBA manning every ferry stage on the Thames...

 

[MY littlebirchwoo]

I wont say 'I told you so' but after the fiasco in the autumn It was obvious this would happen.

The report from YBW today;

The RYA has expressed its disappointment in the announcement by the Government that the e-Borders scheme will come in to effect in 2014.

The Government is yet to detail exactly how the scheme will work for recreational boaters but it will be based on a system where those wishing to make a journey to or from the UK will need to report it on a dedicated website up to 24 hours before departure.

The RYA says: "We continue to maintain that implementing the e-Borders programme in the recreational boating sector would be an inappropriate, disproportionate, ineffective and inefficient mechanism for securing the sea border.

"The RYA has serious concerns that the e-Borders reporting methodology is simply not designed to accommodate the unscheduled activities of the recreational boating sector.

"In the absence of a carrier ticketing system, a passport ‘control line' and attendant law enforcement assets, a system that relies on self-reporting by the law abiding majority is unlikely to present any meaningful challenge to those intent on avoiding detection at the border and the rationale for applying e-Borders controls across the geographic sea border is thus flawed."

The Government has also failed to clear up the conflict between a scheme like e-Borders and the EU Treaty which states that people within the EU are entitled to free movement between countries.

Gus Lewis, head of government affairs for the RYA says: "If the e-Borders programme is to be implemented in the recreational boating sector then in our view the most appropriate, proportionate and cost-effective solution would be for only those persons who are not UK or EU citizens and who are on voyages outside the common travel area to be subject to a requirement to provide their details to the UK Border Agency."

 

[[2068]]

I got shot down in flames for pointing out that the project was not dead, but instead merely resting.
Although second time around, more likely to go to IBM rather than the first batch of id*&ts.

 

[IDAMAY]

E Borders

Once again it just shows that, if you set civil servants running on a perceived problem, they will not stop until they have come up with a "solution." When push comes to shove, the politicians mostly aren't brave enough to over rule the civil servants even when common sense says they should.

We had a senior man from the Agency at our Club a couple of years ago. I asked how on a busy summer day in the Solent they could possibly identify leisure boats arriving from overseas from those out for a day sail. I didn't get any sort of satisfactory reply to that one!

I wouldn't mind too much if I thought the system would actually improve our safety and security. As it patently will not I am going to write to my MP wiyth my views. I don't suppose it will do much good but we should keep trying.

 

[Searush]

(snip)
We had a senior man from the Agency at our Club a couple of years ago. I asked how on a busy summer day in the Solent they could possibly identify leisure boats arriving from overseas from those out for a day sail. I didn't get any sort of satisfactory reply to that one!

(snip).

All they have to do is ignore the stuff inside the Solent & keep a watch on stuff coming in at either end, that will eliminate 90% of the day trippers, except on Round the Island weekend!

 

[IDAMAY]

E Borders

Searush,

I didn't perhaps express myself too well. How would they know which of the many vessels approaching the Solent on our busy day have complied with E-borders and which have not?

UKBA certainly don't haver the resources to intercept every vessel. How long before we are all required to carry transponders?

 

[Searush]

Clearly they won't, they'll just stop a random handfull & heavily fine or jail those that haven't complied. That'll get people complying pretty quickly won't it?

Risk of getting caught may be low, but consequences could be devastating.

I guess we will all need to post an advisory report of a trip every weekend & then cancel if we decide not to go . . .

 

[Silent Lady]

Will the Government be supplying us with computers and access to the internet so we can log all this information. What will happen if the wind changes direction and we go elsewhere instead

 

[Talulah]

If any of the people who were actually working on the eBorders were asked what they thought of the project the response was almost always "They wanted the project to succeed for the sake of their jobs but equally they wanted it to fail because it was such a huge waste of tax payers money."
As far as I know none of these people have changed their view on the subject.

 

[MY littlebirchwoo]

When I first posted this up it was in response to the debate and select committee debate (Boring I know but I watch the parliament chanel far too much) in which the fiasco of the anouncement that checks werre being missed was discussed. My own opinion that there was a huge back covering excercise was also further entrenched when the 'what happens now' bit was discussed. In these debates the eBorders program was openly discussed and the suggestion regarding the tracking of vessels and aircraft is that 'maybe they should file these details as a matter of course whenever they travel' in other words, whether that be UK to UK or UK to EU. Regardless of this, it will be very difficult for non UK nationals to give 24hr prior notice if arriving from further away, or even a uk national who may be sailing and been at sea for several days.

Either way, this isn't welcome news and it WILL have alot more to do with recording all movement rather than just EU travel

 

[Searush]

One can't help feeling that they will end up with absolutely tons of data and no information.

People who want to avoid it will have little trouble changing names of boats & people, or simply not telling anyone & not being spotted by one of the 5 patrol boats.

 

[maby]

Well, if it does come to pass, I'll knock together a little one-button application that posts a standard passage plan and subsequently cancels it. If we all take a copy and make an eBorders submission every time you move the boat on the basis that you might go to France, we'll soon swamp their system...