Eberspacher power supply - should/can it have a switch?

P

prv

Well-Known Member
Joined
29 Nov 2009
Messages
37,358
Location
Southampton
Visit site
On Ariam we have the luxury of Eberspacher blown-air heating. Sorry, don't know which model, but it is specifically an Eberspacher and not Webasto etc.

I'm going to be designing and fitting a new electrics panel for the boat, and I'm wondering whether I should fit a switch for the Eber circuit or just a fuse.

I have two specific questions:

Does the controller (which looks like this: http://www.melloronlineshop.co.uk/t...ploads/1354189846_original_1.jpg&w=450&h=450& ) switch off power entirely when the little rocker switch is turned off, so that if I wanted to do without a separate switch I could?

and

Does the heater need power for any kind of cooldown cycle after the control panel has been switched to off (I know some projectors have this, so that just cutting the power is very bad for them)? If this is the case, then an external switch is to be avoided as someone may turn it off at the wrong time.

Cheers,

Pete
 
The controller switches into shutdown mode so it goes through the cooling cycle, power to it always remains on. I counsel against any switch that can cut off the power to heaters, including battery isolator. If somebody turns the thing off in full flight, damage can easily be done and in extremis a fire could be started
 
prv said:
On Ariam we have the luxury of Eberspacher blown-air heating. Sorry, don't know which model, but it is specifically an Eberspacher and not Webasto etc.

I'm going to be designing and fitting a new electrics panel for the boat, and I'm wondering whether I should fit a switch for the Eber circuit or just a fuse.

I have two specific questions:

Does the controller (which looks like this: http://www.melloronlineshop.co.uk/t...ploads/1354189846_original_1.jpg&w=450&h=450& ) switch off power entirely when the little rocker switch is turned off, so that if I wanted to do without a separate switch I could?

and

Does the heater need power for any kind of cooldown cycle after the control panel has been switched to off (I know some projectors have this, so that just cutting the power is very bad for them)? If this is the case, then an external switch is to be avoided as someone may turn it off at the wrong time.

Cheers,

Pete
Click to expand...

Plus 3, no switch because of the reasons stated by the other two peeps. I am sure the manual says this.
Stu
 
Mine does have an isolator, but it is hidden away in a relatively inaccessible space. I can fully understand the arguments against having one, but I am happy with mine.
 
David2452 said:
The controller switches into shutdown mode so it goes through the cooling cycle, power to it always remains on. I counsel against any switch that can cut off the power to heaters, including battery isolator. If somebody turns the thing off in full flight, damage can easily be done and in extremis a fire could be started
Click to expand...

Ta. I won't fit a switch then; in fact, in the space where the switch would have been, I'll put a little notice saying not to turn off the main battery isolator until the Eber has shut down. In practice it's unlikely that anyone would want to do that anyway.

Pete
 
ukmctc said:
fit a circuit and breaker, then it can be switched off when not in use and when working on it.
Click to expand...

The trouble is that if a switch is available then someone will turn it off when it is in use. I was reading the Glénans sailing manual the other day and came across a rather good saying - "If a damn silly thing can be done, it has been done. If it can't be done, then it will be." Anything from a guest being "helpful" as we leave the boat, to my dad hitting the wrong switch due to mislaying his glasses. David (who ought to know about these things) has explained why this would be bad.

If I want to work on the heater then I can pull the fuse.

Pete
 
On ours we can turn the control unit on and off from the switch panel and the main heater supply goes through the (negative) battery isolator - which is hidden out of sight.
We know that it shouldn't be turned off until it's finished it's warm down cycle and it's highly unlikely that anyone not knowing would find the isolator switch so I'm comfortable with the installation, even if it is not quite in line with the manual. The reason we have it such is that on leaving the boat I like to know that all the electrics (except the solar panel) are turned off with no chance of forgetting anything.

I'd say that as long as you can isolate the heater electrics then that's fine - and a fuse can act like a switch ..
 
fireball said:
On ours we can turn the control unit on and off from the switch panel and the main heater supply goes through the (negative) battery isolator - which is hidden out of sight.
We know that it shouldn't be turned off until it's finished it's warm down cycle and it's highly unlikely that anyone not knowing would find the isolator switch so I'm comfortable with the installation, even if it is not quite in line with the manual.
Click to expand...

Ah - so you have separate power supplies to the controller and the heater? I didn't realise that was possible.

To be clear, I'm not proposing to wire the heater direct to the battery; it will be downstream of the main isolator. But that's not something that is turned off willy-nilly, only when leaving the boat at the end of a cruise. The switches on the board at the chart table are flicked on and off all the time, and it would be very easy for someone to think "ok, we're off to the pub, best turn all this stuff off" and disconnect the heater in mid flight.

Pete
 
The controller requires only a small current - so we can switch that through the switch panel.
The heater requires a significantly large current that our control panel couldn't supply even if we wanted to.
Units can be separately supplied as the controller (ours anyway) just supplies a control voltage to the heater - and you can do away with the controller completely if you needed to test the heater.

So - yes - similar to you - we can nip off the boat and "turn the heater off" - but it won't kill the heater unless you turn off the main isolator - which we don't tend to do unless we're leaving the boat to go home - because we leave the cabin lights easy to turn on and the fridge is normally on too.

If our boat was available to charter then it would be a different matter and I'd bypass the isolator switch and go direct to the battery (via a fuse) for the heater - but I think you can still have the controller on the normal switches - perhaps David could clarify?
 
fireball said:
perhaps David could clarify?
Click to expand...

Clarify? not really but I can muddy things a bit further if that helps........:eek: really depends on heater make, model and control type, some you can some not, some take power direct from the ECU, some seperately some a combination. However my counsel remains that there should only be a circuit breaker and no switch of any kind, fine for me if not as I will replace fried ECUs all day but expensive for owners, even with a battery master arrangement, somebody, some day will forget, even if it's the next owner.
 
One more question, as I'm designing the new panel and my parents have run off with the boat :)

How long does the shutdown cycle generally last? I'm thinking of adding a warning not to turn off the main isolator within X minutes of stopping the heater. Out heater is fairly well soundproofed from inside the boat, so while you can tell if it's running or not, it's not massively obvious.

Pete
 
David2452 said:
Clarify? not really but I can muddy things a bit further if that helps........:eek: really depends on heater make, model and control type, some you can some not, some take power direct from the ECU, some seperately some a combination. However my counsel remains that there should only be a circuit breaker and no switch of any kind, fine for me if not as I will replace fried ECUs all day but expensive for owners, even with a battery master arrangement, somebody, some day will forget, even if it's the next owner.
Click to expand...

So what you're really saying is that you're happy for us to wire our boats with switches all over the place so long as we send the units back to you to replace the broken bits ;)

Ours is a D3LCc unit - there is an ECU in the heater itself and after looking at the wiring diagrams we established that (on ours at least) the user controller unit could be disconnected as this changes the voltage on the signal wire (iirc to 0v) and starts a shutdown. The heater, with its separate high power supply must be connected until it's finished - hence it only goes via the isolator switch (and a fuse) - which only gets turned off when we're packing the boat up ... I'll make a note for the next owner ... ;)
 
fireball said:
I'll make a note for the next owner ... ;)
Click to expand...

Certainly not a bad idea. I wrote up a handover document for Kindred Spirit that runs to about twenty pages. Not expecting anyone to sit down and read it straight off, but things like an explanation of the fuel system, or what coatings have been used on the various parts, could be very useful when someone comes to work on those bits. How many electrical confusion threads here could be shortened or avoided if the OP was armed, like our buyer will be, with an accurate circuit diagram draw up by the previous owner? :)

Pete
 
fireball said:
So what you're really saying is that you're happy for us to wire our boats with switches all over the place so long as we send the units back to you to replace the broken bits ;)
Click to expand...

Toungue in cheek to reinforce my advice.......... but yes, except Ebersplutters. :D

Edited to say, there are very few situations where insurance is completely free of charge, in this case it actually saves money, OK, only the cost of a switch but a saving all the same. A switch introduces (increases) the possibility of a "hot" shut down, why would you?
 
Last edited:
David2452 said:
Toungue in cheek to reinforce my advice.......... but yes, except Ebersplutters. :D

Edited to say, there are very few situations where insurance is completely free of charge, in this case it actually saves money, OK, only the cost of a switch but a saving all the same. A switch introduces (increases) the possibility of a "hot" shut down, why would you?
Click to expand...
As stated previously - I like to know everything is off when I leave the boat. An isolator switch does that for me. It's not ideal and the risk of a hot shutdown is there, but it does mean that if I want the batteries isolated for whatever reason, they can be - straight away ...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top