Eberspacher issue!

[Cardo]

Because I know you all clearly love questions about Eberspachers (Judging by the number of threads on the issue!), I wonder whether someone may know the answer to this one?

New to us boat came with an Eberspacher D2 installed in the cockpit locker. This runs fine when on the highest setting (it won't start unless engine is on or shore power is connected, but I think that's a dying battery issue) however when it's turned down to one of the lower settings it will slow down a bit and after a few minutes it will simply turn off. It can then be restarted by turning it up to the highest setting again.

Is this a known problem?

The installation isn't the most elegant and the ductwork is as leaky as a siv, so I'm fixing all of that anyway. However, the previous owner's solution seemed to be to cover the output end of the Eberspacher in insulation in an apparent attempt to stop heat from being lost.

My theory is that the insulation covering the end of the Eber may have been causing this to overheat when less air was blowing through it? However when turned up there was enough air to keep the machine cool, if that makes sense.

Unfortunately, I'm not in a position to test it at the moment as the electronics on the boat are, umm, currently indisposed, but I'd just like to have an idea before I start putting everything back together again.

Cheers all!

 

[fireball]

It probably needs a "service" ... our D3LCc ran fine for 40-45 minutes then cut out - a temp probe at the output port showed temperature increasing into the range of the cutout. As the gasket was leaking we decided to pull it out, apart, clean, new gaskets and gauze then put back together. Cleaning didn't need much as we'd already run a few litres of heating oil through it - but the new gauze seems to have helped and it ran quite happily for a few hours over the weekend.
Like yours - ours doesn't work on the failing batteries and needs the shorepower or engine to boost the volts so it will work.

 

[pagoda]

Because I know you all clearly love questions about Eberspachers (Judging by the number of threads on the issue!), I wonder whether someone may know the answer to this one?

New to us boat came with an Eberspacher D2 installed in the cockpit locker. This runs fine when on the highest setting (it won't start unless engine is on or shore power is connected, but I think that's a dying battery issue) however when it's turned down to one of the lower settings it will slow down a bit and after a few minutes it will simply turn off. It can then be restarted by turning it up to the highest setting again.

Is this a known problem?

The installation isn't the most elegant and the ductwork is as leaky as a siv, so I'm fixing all of that anyway. However, the previous owner's solution seemed to be to cover the output end of the Eberspacher in insulation in an apparent attempt to stop heat from being lost.

My theory is that the insulation covering the end of the Eber may have been causing this to overheat when less air was blowing through it? However when turned up there was enough air to keep the machine cool, if that makes sense.

Unfortunately, I'm not in a position to test it at the moment as the electronics on the boat are, umm, currently indisposed, but I'd just like to have an idea before I start putting everything back together again.

Cheers all!

Most issues with starting are down to poor connections between the glowplug and the battery. Not perhaps the battery itself.
It takes 20 Amps plus to start an Eber, so ALL the connections need to be clean. You also need to have good sound (heavy - 6mm2) wiring to the glowplug. Some officially supplied is only 2.5mm2, barely adequate , the voltage drop is appreciable.
Try measuring the tip (ie nominally 12v+) of the glowplug when somebody else starts the Eber for you. If you see <11 Volts then you are losing power in wiring and / or grubby connectors.
I ran separate 6mm2 cable (fused ) from the battery direct to the glowplug, switched by a 40Amp Car relay, itself operated by the original glowplug connection. It all fires up without fuss now, with no great losses in the wiring or connectors.
Don't go down the route of expensive "servicing" without checking the basic common faults first...

Graeme

.. may the spark be with you.

 

[CaptainBob]

Does it have a thermostat?

We had similar issues with ours due to a poorly located thermostat thermometer which meant it thought room temperature was 30C+ even when it was near freezing.

Thermostat moved. Problem solved.

 

[alteredoutlook]

Does it have a thermostat?

We had similar issues with ours due to a poorly located thermostat thermometer which meant it thought room temperature was 30C+ even when it was near freezing.

Thermostat moved. Problem solved.

Also, if there isnt a remote temp sensor then it may sense temperature at the unit - if the warmth radiating from the exhaust pipe (as opposed to the ducted heat) heats up the air around the unit (as its in a locker?) then it will cause the unit to think that the temperature has been reached and to cycle down to tick over. This was my problem on fitting a D4 machine.

 

[alahol2]

Also, if there isnt a remote temp sensor then it may sense temperature at the unit - if the warmth radiating from the exhaust pipe (as opposed to the ducted heat) heats up the air around the unit (as its in a locker?) then it will cause the unit to think that the temperature has been reached and to cycle down to tick over. This was my problem on fitting a D4 machine.

+1
Try running the same sequence with the locker lid open. If it runs OK then you need some way to cool the locker. I just leave the locker lid up an inch or so.

 

[Cardo]

Hmm, yes, this thermostat idea sounds like it should fit. If the thermostat is in the unit, which I'm pretty sure it is, then 1) the locker 2) the leaky ducting and 3) the insulation are going to cause the air around the heater to warm up and therefore make the unit think it's well toasty.

The control unit is one of these (attached), if it's set to the maximum does the unit just keep running on max no matter what the temp is? (as long as it doesn't overheat)

 

[pvb]

That control unit is usually seen with older heaters, rather than with the Airtronic. Sounds like the installation might be a bit dodgy (which is the usual reason for Eberspacher problems). Where does the heater draw the process air from (ie the air which it's going to heat)?

 

[Cardo]

That control unit is usually seen with older heaters, rather than with the Airtronic. Sounds like the installation might be a bit dodgy (which is the usual reason for Eberspacher problems). Where does the heater draw the process air from (ie the air which it's going to heat)?

I'd be quite happy to replace the control with something more suitable (I'm moving the wiring around so can just replace the panel in the process). What would be recommended?

The air to be heated is taken from the locker. There is a grill/mesh bit on the arse end of the unit through which the air is sucked in. I was dubious about this however the manual seemed to suggest this was an acceptable method of installation?

 

[pvb]

The usual Airtronic control is the Mini Controller which includes a room thermostat.

How does the air get in to your cockpit locker? At full power, your heater needs about 100 cubic metres an hour.

 

[alahol2]

if it's set to the maximum does the unit just keep running on max no matter what the temp is? (as long as it doesn't overheat)

It will run for longer because it's looking for a higher temperature but it will eventually reach that temp and run down.

The air to be heated is taken from the locker. There is a grill/mesh bit on the arse end of the unit through which the air is sucked in. I was dubious about this however the manual seemed to suggest this was an acceptable method of installation?

That's how ours is but it is frowned upon because, if the exhaust should leak, you could pump exhaust gasses into the cabin.

 

[pcatterall]

The old style control is fine. The thermostat sensor is in the heater and samples the temp of the returning air ( probably the temp in your locker unless there is a return duct fitted) When you turn the control down the heater is taking in the nice hot air of the locker and believes that it has reached the temp you require! ...so it switches off.
Opening the locker may cure this or taking air from outside the locker. Ideally ( for max efficiency ) the cabin air should be returned to the heater.
The D2 shouldn't really just switch off when you turn the temp down. It should slow down ( fan and pump ) but if you turn it too far down it cant cope and will switch off,cool down and restart after time.
Try the open locker idea and just turn it down a bit at a time.
Sort out those electrics!!!

 

[Heckler]

The old style control is fine. The thermostat sensor is in the heater and samples the temp of the returning air ( probably the temp in your locker unless there is a return duct fitted) When you turn the control down the heater is taking in the nice hot air of the locker and believes that it has reached the temp you require! ...so it switches off.
Opening the locker may cure this or taking air from outside the locker. Ideally ( for max efficiency ) the cabin air should be returned to the heater.
The D2 shouldn't really just switch off when you turn the temp down. It should slow down ( fan and pump ) but if you turn it too far down it cant cope and will switch off,cool down and restart after time.
Try the open locker idea and just turn it down a bit at a time.
Sort out those electrics!!!

+1
Stu

 

[pvb]

The old style control is fine.

It makes a lot more sense to have a roomstat incorporated in the controller though.

 

[Cardo]

Thanks for all the replies.

There is a vent in the locker around a couple feet behind the Eberspacher, so this is likely where the air is being sucked from. I could add in some ducting and attach the arse of the Eber to the vent directly, or run some ducting back into the cabin so it sucks that air back in.

I quite like that Mini Controller that was linked. The possibility of running the Eber as a simple ventilator may also be nice in the summer.

A further question - The air input for the combustion is also taken from the cockpit. Is this ok or should I be looking to do something else with it?

One more! - The unit is pretty loud when running (especially as it only wants to run at full tilt!) however there is a silencer sat next to the unit that looks like it wants to be used for something. The manual seems to suggest attaching this to the combustion inlet pipe. Where would it have the most effect? Input or output?

Thanks all!

 

[pvb]

One more! - The unit is pretty loud when running (especially as it only wants to run at full tilt!) however there is a silencer sat next to the unit that looks like it wants to be used for something. The manual seems to suggest attaching this to the combustion inlet pipe. Where would it have the most effect? Input or output?

There are 2 main opportunities to install silencers. Most commonly, the intake of combustion air can have a small silencer, which will kill a lot of the noise. Less commonly, you can add a "process air silencer" in the hot air duct after it leaves the heater - this can greatly reduce fan noise coming through the vents in the cabin, making the installation virtually silent.

 

[Cardo]

There are 2 main opportunities to install silencers. Most commonly, the intake of combustion air can have a small silencer, which will kill a lot of the noise. Less commonly, you can add a "process air silencer" in the hot air duct after it leaves the heater - this can greatly reduce fan noise coming through the vents in the cabin, making the installation virtually silent.

I think I'll lob the silencer on the combustion air inlet and see how that works out. The heating isn't particularly noisy inside the boat, however makes one helluva racket outside. I'd feel for my neighbours in the marina if I ran the heater as it is now!

 

[Cardo]

Just looking at purchasing a new controller thingumabob and came across this one -
http://www.pfjones.co.uk/eberspacher-digital-controller-80110003.html

I gather this would also work with the unit? I'm a sucker for LCD screens!

 

[pvb]

Yes, that would work.

 

[JensK]

however when it's turned down to one of the lower settings it will slow down a bit and after a few minutes it will simply turn off. It can then be restarted by turning it up to the highest setting again.

One thing to make sure, according to the manual: If the desired temperature is exceeded while the heater is operating in low heat mode the heater will switch into “standby” mode. The heater will re-start once heat is required again

In the "standby mode" with an external sensor, the blower is also turned off. The Eberspächer appears to be dead/malfunctioning. Do you turn down the button to a lower temperature than you want?

My old heater did not turn off the blower. When I got my new Eberspächer I noticed the 'malfunctioning' after a year, called the serviceman and had to pay for getting the conclusion: everything is fine.