Eberspacher D1LC decoke on paraffin

[jpthegp]

I admit to not having had the old D1LC on my Southerly serviced since I've had her - 3 years - and I suspect no service was done for some time before that!
So it came as little surprise when it started to sound rough. Gladly no problem starting or stopping, but once warmed up a metallic whine - suspicious, I thought, of the bearings in the fan drying out.
However, having read the recent PBO (?) article on Eberspachers, I homed in on the comment that running them for a few hours on paraffin left the chambers much cleaner, easing the decoke and service. Therefore, before removing it, I hooked her up to a gallon of paraffin, and once the fuel line had filled, away she went.
BUT - she ran with no whine - and hotter. Perfect function. I know Ebers don't like old diesel - and with 60 gallons on board it is hard to keep it fresh - I might burn 25 gallons a season - but I wonder if the heater had coked up on stale diesel restricting the airflow and straining the fan system, and if the paraffin clean burn has done a 'chemical decoke'. Has anyone any ideas or experience on this?
I'm going to install a permanent 'dual fuel' option with 2 pumps and a changeover power switch so I can regularly 'flush' the heater with a paraffin burn for an evening every now and then.
All very interesting.... saved me an immediate Ebers strip and gave me a nice warm night!

 

[Martin_J]

To save you having to dismantle it now (and replace gaskets) just to see what the paraffin actually did to the insides of the combustion chamber, check out a previous post with some of my photos..
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258433

 

[jpthegp]

Blimey. thanks - that is impressive!
Sounds like I'm on the right track, doesn't it.
Apologies - should have searched the forum for paraffin + Eberspacher - just have and there's a lot of rescource there!
Many Thanks

 

[V1701]

My experience is that they don't like red diesel and being run on low heat for extended periods, also used paraffin to good effect...

 

[David2452]

Pleased that the paraffin worked for you, no need to go to the expense of another pump though, just get a 3/16 two way valve and mount it just pefore the pump, assuming it would be easy to access that is.

 

[jpthegp]

Ah. Access. Now that's why I went for another pump. I'm 6'2" and dont squeeze well into the depths of my lazarette....

 

[akyaka]

My experience is that they don't like red diesel

I believe that it says not to use red diesel in the manual where it also says that you should run them a minimum of once a month.

 

[David2452]

I've also run my D3L on paraffin and it worked a treat, I was thinking of permanently running it on the stuff from now on. Anyone know of any reason why this might be a bad idea?

No reason at all, except long term use at the seemingly higher temperatures produced is little tested, Wallas actually produce a different heater for Paraffin which uses different components and ECU settings, I do know of one guy that has used it in a Webasto for four years. However remember that the advent of ULS red has somewat negated the previous issues with premature coking, jury still out but the diminishing number of instances we are getting is a good pointer, I speak of premature coking, not normal service interval decokes. Also as I always say these things are not fit and forget, they do need servicing, burn rate checked and stuff every couple of years. It is not just red that coked them up, rich burn rate will do exacly the same as will exess back pressure, tight fan bearings etc. etc. I used to set the CO2 as close to the bottom end as possible and that helped even on the old higher sulphur red.

 

[Heckler]

I've also run my D3L on paraffin and it worked a treat, I was thinking of permanently running it on the stuff from now on. Anyone know of any reason why this might be a bad idea?

I wrote the article in PBO in 2011, Eber UK got the ump about my statement about running it on paraffin being recommended by Eber to decoke it. They said they didnt, I then pointed them to the American Eber site where there is a paper explaining how to decoke them by running on kerosene!
The original post back in 2011 talked about a whine, it was probably a bit of carbon touching a revolving bit.
Ihad probs with carboning up on my D3 a few years ago, ran it on paraffin, it did the biz.
Last weekend, i took 10 litres in a plastic bidon to the boat, unhooked the tick tick pump feed from the fuel tank and dropped the end in the bidon. I ran it all Saturday night for 6 hrs, no probs. Interestingly, I could see by the level of the paraffin, (actually, called kerosene by the local garage that sells it out of a pump for 63.5 p a litre) that i used only about 2.5 ltrs all night.
So less than half a litre an hour in a D3LC and the kerosene was half the price of the red disel that Zi would have used!
Stu
PS a good rule of thumb for hydro carbons is that the heavier it is, ie 35sec diesel as against 28sec kerosene, the more power you get out of a similar quantity. So diesel will burn "hotter" than kerosene. Kerosene "cleans" because it is burning at a "leaner" mix. Red is like running a petrol engine on choke is an anology that ccould perhaps be used?
PPS Go to here http://www.espar.com/www/espar.com/help/ and troubleshooting and tips for more info

 

[donaldson]

Such a useful thread - thanks guys.

 

[ghostlymoron]

Dormant threads

What a wonderful resource this forum is. Threads can go dormant for years and then pop up again to provide help for a new generation of readers. Presumably rescusitated by someone using the (not very good) 'search' function.

 

[JerryHawkins]

How to set CO2

No reason at all, except long term use at the seemingly higher temperatures produced is little tested, Wallas actually produce a different heater for Paraffin which uses different components and ECU settings, I do know of one guy that has used it in a Webasto for four years. However remember that the advent of ULS red has somewat negated the previous issues with premature coking, jury still out but the diminishing number of instances we are getting is a good pointer, I speak of premature coking, not normal service interval decokes. Also as I always say these things are not fit and forget, they do need servicing, burn rate checked and stuff every couple of years. It is not just red that coked them up, rich burn rate will do exacly the same as will exess back pressure, tight fan bearings etc. etc. I used to set the CO2 as close to the bottom end as possible and that helped even on the old higher sulphur red.

Hi David,

Can you tell me how you set the CO2 on an eber? Mine is a Hydronic5 (previous boat had an Airtronic2) and I wasn't aware that there was any way to adjust this. I can't see any way to alter the fuel/air ratio.

 

[David2452]

Hi David,

Can you tell me how you set the CO2 on an eber? Mine is a Hydronic5 (previous boat had an Airtronic2) and I wasn't aware that there was any way to adjust this. I can't see any way to alter the fuel/air ratio.

Many water based systems require an interface and software (EDITH in Eber's case) to adjust the burn, used in conjunction with a calibrated flue gas analyser, there are so many ways from simple potentiomiter and air bleed screws, fiddling with cables, to complicated shimming of air motors through to software driven adjustment of the ECU. My factory training, access to service bulletins etc. and dealerships do not (and never will ) include Eberspacher and I hessitate therefore to proffer any in depth advice on them, generalities yes, but no help in this case I'm afraid, for all I know they are not adjustable, though that would seem a bit silly. I just wish somebody woul;d come up with an under 8kw P.J. system then half of the problems would go away.

 

[Heckler]

Many water based systems require an interface and software (EDITH in Eber's case) to adjust the burn, used in conjunction with a calibrated flue gas analyser, there are so many ways from simple potentiomiter and air bleed screws, fiddling with cables, to complicated shimming of air motors through to software driven adjustment of the ECU. My factory training, access to service bulletins etc. and dealerships do not (and never will ) include Eberspacher and I hessitate therefore to proffer any in depth advice on them, generalities yes, but no help in this case I'm afraid, for all I know they are not adjustable, though that would seem a bit silly. I just wish somebody woul;d come up with an under 8kw P.J. system then half of the problems would go away.

Because the speed is constant for a given heat setting I suppose the only adjustments would be the on the end of the tick tick pump. I believe the stroke volume is set by turning the nut at the end, more fuel for richer and less for leaner HOWEVER!!! I wouldnt do it! Too easy to mess things up and without serious test equipment too expensive to reset!
Stu

 

[David2452]

Because the speed is constant for a given heat setting I suppose the only adjustments would be the on the end of the tick tick pump. I believe the stroke volume is set by turning the nut at the end, more fuel for richer and less for leaner HOWEVER!!! I wouldnt do it! Too easy to mess things up and without serious test equipment too expensive to reset!
Stu

Fan speeds are not always a constant due to a number of factors, though of course their design speed is a constant but the pump is the best place to start for the following reasons, all these heaters have a rating in KW that they are designed for so you need to know that there is the correct volume of fuel to start with, if you go adusting fan speeds and air bleeds without that base line set you will never get the heater to output it's designed heat. Possibly worse, if you have a pump delivering too much fuel and adjust the CO2 / CO to the specified level then you risk constant overheats or reduced heater life if the thing is running just below over heat, especially in older heaters where the overheat sensor is often at a higher level than the new CE mark allows on modern ones. However, as Stu says best be informed but leave it to people with the kit and who do it regularly. My thermo test software shows precise fan speed and it is often, more often than not out of spec particularly on air heaters with loads of bendy ducts.

 

[ghostlymoron]

Before you make any adjustments (to most things not just Ebers) keep a note of the original settings and then note what adjustments you make. That way you can always return to where you started. I didn't know that the fuel mix on an Eber could be adjusted.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Following on from this discussion I decided it was time I got round to altering the fuel supply of our Eber to allow me to run it on paraffin occasionally to decoke it. A little research (and a phone call tells me the OD of the fuel pipe is 4mm. Ideally what I need is a short length of 4mm pipe and a three way valve with compression fittings for 4mm pipe. After much googling and phoning various suppliers I am struggling. I even phone an Eber dealer but got thinned out. I can find a short length if 4mm pipe on EBay and I can find a 4mm 'T' fitting which I could get away with if I could find a plain inline valve. Any ideas?

 

[David2452]

Following on from this discussion I decided it was time I got round to altering the fuel supply of our Eber to allow me to run it on paraffin occasionally to decoke it. A little research (and a phone call tells me the OD of the fuel pipe is 4mm. Ideally what I need is a short length of 4mm pipe and a three way valve with compression fittings for 4mm pipe. After much googling and phoning various suppliers I am struggling. I even phone an Eber dealer but got thinned out. I can find a short length if 4mm pipe on EBay and I can find a 4mm 'T' fitting which I could get away with if I could find a plain inline valve. Any ideas?

You will find it a struggle to find a two way valve in 4mm compression, I work in that stuff all the time and even a simple fuel tap is difficult enough and have to reduce from 1/4" or 6mm , it may be simpler to find a 1/4" or 6mm two way and use reducers.

 

[john_morris_uk]

You will find it a struggle to find a two way valve in 4mm compression, I work in that stuff all the time and even a simple fuel tap is difficult enough and have to reduce from 1/4" or 6mm , it may be simpler to find a 1/4" or 6mm two way and use reducers.

That will explain why I was struggling then! I'll look into reducers and use a 6mm 3 way ball valve as they seem easier to source.

 

[David2452]

That will explain why I was struggling then! I'll look into reducers and use a 6mm 3 way ball valve as they seem easier to source.

BES part 9967 4 mm x 1/4" will serve well at £1.50 a pop, thats what I use on the 1/4" fuel taps and the 1/4" port mini filters I use.