Renegade_Master
Well-Known Member
Early Princess's had a problem with windows due to two different metals being used in construction I believe SS & Ali. Anyone had experience of this and anyone know the best place to have replacements made?
Early Princess window probs
- Thread starter Renegade_Master
- Start date
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Oh yes, I had some experience of this on Princesses 435 and 470. You get a white salty deposit on the inside of the frame and, yes you're right, supposedly its due a reaction between the aluminium frame and the stainless steel covers (cheapo Princess design). I was told that the only solution was repacing the whole frame and I believe Princess did this on some boats which exhibited the problem within the warranty period. My boats were well outside the warranty period so no chance of Princess picking up the tab. I just left the windows as they were and wiped them down regularly but thats not the long term solution
It might be worth calling Trend Marine Products as I've got a feeling they were suppliers to Princess at the time. Maybe they have come up with another solution?
It might be worth calling Trend Marine Products as I've got a feeling they were suppliers to Princess at the time. Maybe they have come up with another solution?
capsco
Well-Known Member
I once had a quote to replace the windows on an early P360 which were notoriously bad £10k!!!!! for stainless
Dave99
Well-Known Member
why don't you give princess a call?
Renegade_Master
Well-Known Member
If they deal with it they will charge hugh mark up for a problem of there original making born out of crap design. Seems kinda wrong to pay that IMHO
petem
Well-Known Member
Try Phillip Muller who makes new windows and hatches. He will also come and repair.
023 8026 0296
07778563918 Mob
Pete
023 8026 0296
07778563918 Mob
Pete
DAKA
Well-Known Member
I am not sure how bad your windows are but I can tell you how I have stopped mine from rotting further.
The white powder (in my case looked far worse than it really was, aluminum makes a lot of mess before it looses significant strength).
There are gutters in the base of the windows that fill up with dirt- shells from seagull shrt etc.
once the gutters are blocked rain water can not escape and water rots the aluminum 24/7.
Put a jet wash through the window gutters and watch all the debris wash out.
It would be wise to have someone inside the boat with a towel to catch any ingress.
After my first jet wash there was no further ingress of water and the white powder stopped almost immediately.
I regularly wash out the gutters with the hose pipe and jet wash when I have it out for other things and water no longer creeps in, even out at sea with a good side lashing of waves/spray we remain water tight.
My windows are Aluminum but I believe the same treatment will work.
The white powder (in my case looked far worse than it really was, aluminum makes a lot of mess before it looses significant strength).
There are gutters in the base of the windows that fill up with dirt- shells from seagull shrt etc.
once the gutters are blocked rain water can not escape and water rots the aluminum 24/7.
Put a jet wash through the window gutters and watch all the debris wash out.
It would be wise to have someone inside the boat with a towel to catch any ingress.
After my first jet wash there was no further ingress of water and the white powder stopped almost immediately.
I regularly wash out the gutters with the hose pipe and jet wash when I have it out for other things and water no longer creeps in, even out at sea with a good side lashing of waves/spray we remain water tight.
My windows are Aluminum but I believe the same treatment will work.
Lozzer
Well-Known Member
How come you are interested in Princess now Clive?
Renegade_Master
Well-Known Member
So you think I'm just a one boat guy heh? I may even look at a Manhattan 84 have'nt made up my mind yet :~)
Renegade_Master
Well-Known Member
by the way do you know nyone local who can do windows lozzer?
oldgit
Well-Known Member
Same here and sometimes give extra wash out and heavy sluice with carwax shampoo.
Lozzer
Well-Known Member
I saw some guys working on the windscreens of a princess V70 in Banus the other day, I didnt bother taking down there number as I didnt need to. I do know the skipper of the boat and the guys in the Princess office so could ask if you want. I think it would have been a warranty job.
Now a Manhattan 84? well will you keep that? Bit OTT for little old Duquesa.... To pay Banus prices you would be in excess of €200k for mooring I would imagine.
I bet the students would like it as well... Might have to put rates up to cover fuel costs as they drink it like hell.
Off to work now (thanks) nice to see sun is out and wind has dropped. Call me if you need the number of the window guys.
Now a Manhattan 84? well will you keep that? Bit OTT for little old Duquesa.... To pay Banus prices you would be in excess of €200k for mooring I would imagine.
I bet the students would like it as well... Might have to put rates up to cover fuel costs as they drink it like hell.
Off to work now (thanks) nice to see sun is out and wind has dropped. Call me if you need the number of the window guys.
DAKA
Well-Known Member
This is a copy of a section taken from the Princess Owners site
"I hold my hand up
I am guilty of doing this job Stefan.
The white powder is salt and if you go out in a heavy sea there is not just salt that gets on your upolstery, the salt laden water comes in!!!
We have taken the windows out completely and window wipers and rebedded them using Sikaflex-291 polyurethane sealant. This has cured 90% of the problem as the water was coming in between the window frame and the fiberglass but not any more. The other 10% is the fact that the salt water is finding it's way around the glass and bedding sealant holding the glass in place. For this we are using Captain Jolly's Creep and Crack Cure which is a thin liquid that creeps into any small gaps in the sealant around the glass. We are still applying this (in small amounts) but we may need to cut back the sealant around the glass on the outside and reseal with Sikaflex again.
This is an ongoing process and we are hopeful of 100% sucsess. The problem with the windows leaking is the design of the structure. The fiberglass is quite thin and if you look around the main saloon you should think about what is actually holding up the flybridge - you've guessed it, it's not just the frame but the windows too. So the windows flex as the fiberglass flexs in rough weather and the seal gets broken easily. This leads to salt water ingress and salt deposits when the water evaporates from the inside of the pretty stainless steel frames.
1st step is to take off the inside S/S frame which is cosmetic only and then get a willing helper to spray the window with water. Watch carefully for any drips forming and try to follow the path the water has made to get to the inside. Take off the black plastic infill that is snapped into place around the black aluminium on the inside and this should allow you to see if the glass/sealant/frame seal is broken or not.
If you are taking the frame out, be sure and clean the frame and fiberglass completely. You will probably need a number of small right angled screwdrivers and stubby screwdrivers to take the S/S screws out. Mask around the window before taking the window frame out so that you can clean the excess sealant off clean. Use a degreaser or thinners and don't touch the frame or fiberglass afterwards with your greasy fingers. Use a large bead of sealant around the frame about the thickness of your thumb or thicker and lift into position. Use shims of 1-2mm around the very edage of the frame and press down. Now comes the hard part - you need to screw in and tighten up all the screws that hold the frame in place. If the screws do not catch get someone to put the frame down as you tighten up. The excess sealant should bulge out - don't touch it. Leave it to dry for at least 24hours, remove shims and then use a stanley blade or sharp knife to cut the excess off. Then remove the masking tape. Finally tighten the screws up if you can, probably only a 1/4 turn or less. Now is the time to see if your sealing has worked. Hopefully you are sucessful and there is no water coming in around the frame. If it is leaking round the glass only then that is your next step. Mask, cut back existing sealant and seal again."
Hope this helps
"I hold my hand up
I am guilty of doing this job Stefan.The white powder is salt and if you go out in a heavy sea there is not just salt that gets on your upolstery, the salt laden water comes in!!!
We have taken the windows out completely and window wipers and rebedded them using Sikaflex-291 polyurethane sealant. This has cured 90% of the problem as the water was coming in between the window frame and the fiberglass but not any more. The other 10% is the fact that the salt water is finding it's way around the glass and bedding sealant holding the glass in place. For this we are using Captain Jolly's Creep and Crack Cure which is a thin liquid that creeps into any small gaps in the sealant around the glass. We are still applying this (in small amounts) but we may need to cut back the sealant around the glass on the outside and reseal with Sikaflex again.
This is an ongoing process and we are hopeful of 100% sucsess. The problem with the windows leaking is the design of the structure. The fiberglass is quite thin and if you look around the main saloon you should think about what is actually holding up the flybridge - you've guessed it, it's not just the frame but the windows too. So the windows flex as the fiberglass flexs in rough weather and the seal gets broken easily. This leads to salt water ingress and salt deposits when the water evaporates from the inside of the pretty stainless steel frames.
1st step is to take off the inside S/S frame which is cosmetic only and then get a willing helper to spray the window with water. Watch carefully for any drips forming and try to follow the path the water has made to get to the inside. Take off the black plastic infill that is snapped into place around the black aluminium on the inside and this should allow you to see if the glass/sealant/frame seal is broken or not.
If you are taking the frame out, be sure and clean the frame and fiberglass completely. You will probably need a number of small right angled screwdrivers and stubby screwdrivers to take the S/S screws out. Mask around the window before taking the window frame out so that you can clean the excess sealant off clean. Use a degreaser or thinners and don't touch the frame or fiberglass afterwards with your greasy fingers. Use a large bead of sealant around the frame about the thickness of your thumb or thicker and lift into position. Use shims of 1-2mm around the very edage of the frame and press down. Now comes the hard part - you need to screw in and tighten up all the screws that hold the frame in place. If the screws do not catch get someone to put the frame down as you tighten up. The excess sealant should bulge out - don't touch it. Leave it to dry for at least 24hours, remove shims and then use a stanley blade or sharp knife to cut the excess off. Then remove the masking tape. Finally tighten the screws up if you can, probably only a 1/4 turn or less. Now is the time to see if your sealing has worked. Hopefully you are sucessful and there is no water coming in around the frame. If it is leaking round the glass only then that is your next step. Mask, cut back existing sealant and seal again."
Hope this helps