EA to carry out Boat Registration checks in Penton Hook Marina.

Ramage said:
The EA are going to check Penton Hook marina on 13th & 14th November to carry out Boat Registration checks.

https://www.facebook.com/penton.marina/posts/395688263914466
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Perhaps the enforcement team should measure the accommodations whilst they are there, probably £25000 in annual charges that have not been claimed for 55 years.

The tree on MDL land which fell into the river early this year making a narrow channel (because of silt build up) even narrower and partially blocking the entrance to the Abbey River, so increasing flood risk, should also get the attention of the enforcement team.

The downside of inviting the EA onto your private land MDL?
 
"The downside of inviting the EA onto your private land MDL?"

The upside will of course be that a tiny minority will no longer be enjoying the largesse of the majority of boaters happy to pay towards the upkeep of the river .
The downside (for some) was your persistant efforts of bringing to the attention of other river users the fact that some felt mightly aggrieved in having to contribute to the upkeep of the river and their reasons why.
Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention.
It would otherwise probably have remained business as usual for the reluctant few. :)
 
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A difficult one for the EA, on the one had they want to be seen to be carrying out checks (although seems far too late in the year to be doing that but thats another discussion), while on the other, I do wonder how effective a spot check is if it is announced several days in advance...

Bit like the police saying that next Friday we will be stopping every car that passes along the A308 through Windsor to check for road tax, MOT, insurance - highly likely that those driving a dodgy car would just pick a different route that day.
 
oldgit said:
"The downside of inviting the EA onto your private land MDL?"

The upside will of course be that a tiny minority will no longer be enjoying the largesse of the majority of boaters happy to pay towards the upkeep of the river .
The downside (for some) was your persistant efforts of bringing to the attention of other river users the fact that some felt mightly aggrieved in having to contribute to the upkeep of the river and their reasons why.
Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention.
It would otherwise probably have remained business as usual for the reluctant few. :)
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OG, you do not pay an annual registration charge for the non tidal River Medway.

I do not seek to demonise you for failing to pay for the upkeep of the river because you do not keep your boat on the EA controlled non tidal Medway and therefor have no liability and do not benefit from its upkeep. Why do you continually demonise people that pay considerable annual mooring fees in private water marinas and never use the Thames and the navigation facilities that the registration fee pays for?
 
Originally Posted by TT_WO
Perhaps the enforcement team should measure the accommodations whilst they are there, probably £25000 in annual charges that have not been claimed for 55 years.


Can you explain what this means please ?




Many people, for example the editor of the now defunct MBM magazine, did/ do not realise that the EA applied for legislation to apply registration charges to boats kept on Adjacent Waters (marinas) and this legislation was denied.

Instead of accepting this decision the EA chose to apply this new charge anyway and claim that they have this right as a result of a single word “works” in the existing 1932 Thames Conservancy Act definition of the Thames.
This is an entirely new interpretation of the meaning of the word ‘works’ in this context and I would expect it to be challenged on the basis that this was not intended by the original legislators (Thames Conservancy) that a definition of ‘works’ would give control over private property.

The EA will not be able to demonstrate any previous control over this private property for example, surely since 1932 a navigation authority would have written to the marinas reminding them that boats moving within the confines of a marina or a non- moving houseboat were subject to a registration charge.

The EA are entitled to charge for accommodations (pontoons, piles etc) on the Thames, the fact that the marinas have never been charged for these accommodation surely means that they did not believe that they had that right and by the same token would not have the right to charge registration for boats kept in a private marina but do not venture onto the Thames.
 
However, MDL terms and conditions require boats in their private marina to be registered with the EA, even if they never leave the marina. They are also required to be insured and have a BSS certificate.

So doubtless the EA will find no defaulters.....
 
Whatever has happened historicaly times have changed and there are a lot of anomolies to sort out, but I certainly agree that anybody moored in a Thames Marina floating on Thames water
should be paying their way. Hopefully legislation will eventualy sort this out, as Marinas didn't exist in TC days I have no problem with the EA's intepretation of "works" as meaning
marinas. Seems logical to me and anyway it is morally correct that if you choose to live on a boat you should contribute to the supplier of the water you float on like everybody else.
I sympathise with those faced with an unexpected bill but this was always going to happen eventually.
 
Chris_d said:
Whatever has happened historicaly times have changed and there are a lot of anomolies to sort out, but I certainly agree that anybody moored in a Thames Marina floating on Thames water
should be paying their way. Hopefully legislation will eventualy sort this out, as Marinas didn't exist in TC days I have no problem with the EA's intepretation of "works" as meaning
marinas. Seems logical to me and anyway it is morally correct that if you choose to live on a boat you should contribute to the supplier of the water you float on like everybody else.
I sympathise with those faced with an unexpected bill but this was always going to happen eventually.
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It is Thames water when it is on land managed by the EA, it is private water when it is on private land. The marina pays Council Tax for this facility whereas Bourne End marina pays accommodation charges to the EA because their pontoons are on the Thames but will not pay council tax for this part of their facility.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
High court appeal judge February 2013.
Lord Justice Lewison :


54. English law does not recognise the ownership of water. Instead it recognises ownership of "land covered by water". Sir William Blackstone summarised the common law in his Commentaries on the Laws of England (vol 2 p…………………………………..
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As you say, at least these marinas built on private land (gravel pits) did not exist when the 1932 legislation was drafted. As there was no anticipation of future extension to the River Thames in the legislation how could a marina constructed on private land 30 year after the Thames was defined, be legally part of the Thames?

Some marinas, not all, do contractually require registration, this is not enforceable by the EA but the marina could of course enforce this condition of their mooring agreement.
 
Sounds like a poor case was made then I understood all the river is on private land, all riparian owners own the land under the river.
I am sure something will change because as with canals and CRT's rules once you let Thames Water in the EA controls the water and all that floats or is installed through it.
You can keep arguing that its not so but this is the way it must go and the majority of river users seem to agree.
 
TT_WO said:
Some marinas, not all, do contractually require registration, this is not enforceable by the EA but the marina could of course enforce this condition of their mooring agreement.
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Since this thread is about the EA carrying out Registration checks in Penton Hook marina that is the end of that particular argument. Incidentally, MDL also require registration for boats in Bray & Windsor marinas.

I do not know about the requirements in Racecourse Marina, or Thames & Kennet (although Thames & Kennet recently hosted a visit from the EA).

This does not leave many marinas that might not require registration does it?
 
TT_WO said:
OG, you do not pay an annual registration charge for the non tidal River Medway.
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H,mm.....The daily/ weekly EA fees each time we transit the lock to enjoy the upper Medway over the last few years works out at just under £300 PA.As for how long this has been going on, no doubt you would be pleased to see a few photos of yours truly boating on the Medway in the early 1960s....
Modesty also prevents me mentioning organising the regular RCC summer trip to Allington (8 boats paying for lock and moorings) or the RCC Xmas cruise on 21st Nov (15 boats at moment and counting) all paying lock fee and moorings.
It may not amount to the vast ransom you have no doubt contributed over the years........but it all helps. :)
Still think it was very decent of you to bring the matter of recalcitrant payers to the attention of the forum.
 
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Who woke TT-WO up?.....thought everyone was hibernating:)

Old Git.....some 60's pics would be great!Do you remember a chap called Ray Harris,ran a chandlery barge on the medway?Big pals with my grandfather.
 
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