boatone
Well-Known Member
This is next Thursday morning from 10am to 12pm. If any one would like to attend please either PM or email me on admin@tmba.org.uk and I will let you have further details as you need to register.
EA Mooring Enforcement trials - Weybridge and Walton
- Thread starter boatone
- Start date
This is next Thursday morning from 10am to 12pm. If any one would like to attend please either PM or email me on admin@tmba.org.uk and I will let you have further details as you need to register.
Actionmat
Well-Known Member
So we have volunteers in light blue shirts doing a working mans job for free at the locks while a parasitic parking company patrols the riverbank for cash. I can't come as I'll be working, but I'm dead against this idea unless we receive a guarantee that they'll never charge for the first 24 hours. I'm worried that if we see private enforcement it will be inevitable, they're not doing it for what's in it for us, it's what's in it for them that gets the bean counters salivating.
Just look at Henley. Pull over between 10am and 3pm for a pint of milk and there'll be an official waiting for you demanding £9 for the privilege. I got stuck on the bottom when I left, so it's good to know that the money's going on maintaining the moorings. Greedy *******s.
Just look at Henley. Pull over between 10am and 3pm for a pint of milk and there'll be an official waiting for you demanding £9 for the privilege. I got stuck on the bottom when I left, so it's good to know that the money's going on maintaining the moorings. Greedy *******s.
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boatone
Well-Known Member
I think you are being a little hasty in your assumptions. I believe the use of the third party is to collect unpaid charges rather than to actually issue parking tickets and it will be EA staff that initially issue the notices.
However, the purpose of next Thursdays event is to allow us to ask questions and find out exactly how it will work.
I understand any actual mooring charges go directly to the EA income stream for the river.
However, the purpose of next Thursdays event is to allow us to ask questions and find out exactly how it will work.
I understand any actual mooring charges go directly to the EA income stream for the river.
boatone
Well-Known Member
Absolutely not true. Mooring on Mill Meadow between 10am and 3 pm is free - pic taken last month:
Actionmat
Well-Known Member
Absolutely not true. Mooring on Mill Meadow between 10am and 3 pm is free - pic taken last month:
I apologise, you are correct. I believe I arrived just after 3 and they were waiting. I still stand by my accusation that they're greedy *******s though. I want an assurance that 24hr moorings will survive, Henley wants money even if you're not staying overnight.
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boatone
Well-Known Member
If you'd been referring to the guy that collects below the bridge on Fawley Meadow etc I would agree - he is really sharp but does a good job!. However, my experience of the council staff at Mill Meadows has been nothing but reasonable and they usually come round twice - late afternoon and early morning.
As regards dredging its expensive and ain't going to happen. Anyways, just as likely the level may have dropped if you were afloat when you arrived
Actionmat
Well-Known Member
I didn't stop, I pulled over, was told I'd have to pay immediately and clocked the starboard prop when i pulled out. Everyone moved to the port side and I pushed the boat off about 50 yards upstream of the bandstand.
I once received an early morning visit at Mill Meadows on New Year's Day. 2 official looking types were standing in my cockpit and knocking on the cabin door. I thought it was the council and as the meter in the car park said it was free on that day I was bemused, then I exploded when I realised it was the Jehovah's witnesses! if we could get them to patrol all the moorings it would certainly deter overstayers
I once received an early morning visit at Mill Meadows on New Year's Day. 2 official looking types were standing in my cockpit and knocking on the cabin door. I thought it was the council and as the meter in the car park said it was free on that day I was bemused, then I exploded when I realised it was the Jehovah's witnesses! if we could get them to patrol all the moorings it would certainly deter overstayers
Paradour
New Member
Interesting.
With regard to private parking in general there are a few things to bear in mind:
To enter a contract you must be aware of the contract terms at the time (Kinda obvious but not always the case)
The terma must be fair and enforceable (often not)
The contracting parties must be able to enter in to the contract in the first place - The PPC would need to be either a) the landowner or b) have a suitable contract in place between them and the landowner which gives them the right to take action on behalf of the landowner (hint: Most don't)
The action should cover the loss - of the landowner. (Hint 1: In a free car park with vacant spaces, this is precisely zero. Hint 2: losses don't include business expenses; parking patrols, office overhead etc.)
If it's not a contractual liability, it's a fine and PPCs cannot issue "Fines" Only a policeman or the courts can do that. All you get on your boat (or car) is a speculative invoice, which generally has as much weight as me asking for payment for this posting.
Funnily enough, in many shopping multi-store, retail park etc., car parks there will be a planning permission condition tha tparking is free, which trumps anything a PPC may say.
Now, I'm by no means an expert so dont take any of the above as gospel - but there is a bunch of guys at www.pepipoo.com who are only too willing and able to help fight PPC tickets and those from councils, as well as tickets for speeding etc. I would anticipate they's be only too pleased to establish a marine section.
They take the view that if we are supposed to obey the letter of the law, there is no reason not to expect the people issuing and pursuing the tickets to do the same. Trouble (for them) is they often don't
If anyone has 'issues' with parking tickets in general, it's always worth checking the foums at www.pepipoo.com
With regard to private parking in general there are a few things to bear in mind:
To enter a contract you must be aware of the contract terms at the time (Kinda obvious but not always the case)
The terma must be fair and enforceable (often not)
The contracting parties must be able to enter in to the contract in the first place - The PPC would need to be either a) the landowner or b) have a suitable contract in place between them and the landowner which gives them the right to take action on behalf of the landowner (hint: Most don't)
The action should cover the loss - of the landowner. (Hint 1: In a free car park with vacant spaces, this is precisely zero. Hint 2: losses don't include business expenses; parking patrols, office overhead etc.)
If it's not a contractual liability, it's a fine and PPCs cannot issue "Fines" Only a policeman or the courts can do that. All you get on your boat (or car) is a speculative invoice, which generally has as much weight as me asking for payment for this posting.
Funnily enough, in many shopping multi-store, retail park etc., car parks there will be a planning permission condition tha tparking is free, which trumps anything a PPC may say.
Now, I'm by no means an expert so dont take any of the above as gospel - but there is a bunch of guys at www.pepipoo.com who are only too willing and able to help fight PPC tickets and those from councils, as well as tickets for speeding etc. I would anticipate they's be only too pleased to establish a marine section.
They take the view that if we are supposed to obey the letter of the law, there is no reason not to expect the people issuing and pursuing the tickets to do the same. Trouble (for them) is they often don't
If anyone has 'issues' with parking tickets in general, it's always worth checking the foums at www.pepipoo.com
gordontytler
Well-Known Member
I don't mind paying if the money goes to dredging the banks and cutting trees. Also, some towns like Wallingford and Abingdon should realise how much money they are loosing when people can't moor up and buy an expensive lunch and some antiques. I personally saw lots of this money pass by this weekend. The problem is far worse lower down such as Chertsey, where the public moorings are permanently occupied and the banks too shallow. I this is a simple thing to solve. Just tell the local business you came by boat. Everyone is happy if we can park our boats and spend money. If we cant park, no one is happy.
hartcjhart
Well-Known Member
I would question the legallity of their signage,therefore their ability to enforce charges
byron
RIP
Opposite view... here is Henley stating 'no commercial moorings' whereas the only itinerant moorings we allow is Commercial. We have an absolute ban on private boats (except Clubs by arrangement). However if say the Narrow Boat that plies the Thames selling diesel and coal wanted an overnight stop they would be more than welcome as would anyone else earning their living from the river.
Paradour
New Member
+1. have a look at the forums on www.pepipoo.com - a site dedicated to fighting private parking companies, where District Enforcement fdeature in several threads.
boatone
Well-Known Member
Income from EA moorings goes directly into the EA Thames revenue stream, so at least it is contributing to the costs of maintaining the river. There is a significant programme for tree works and dredging to preserve the navigation channel but that doesn't mean "off fairway" will get much , if any, priority unless plant is in the area already and it can be done as an incidental to fairway work.
What local authorities and other riparian landowners do with income is their decision. I doubt that many regard these issues as a priority compared to other local issues concerning ratepayers. I am aware of one forumite here that made direct representation to Chertsey council regarding the moorings just above the bridge and received what I regard a positive response.
EugeneR
Well-Known Member
If they charge £500 for a few minutes' unauthorised mooring, as the picture suggests, then I think they are greedy too.
boatone
Well-Known Member
I went to the briefing at Weybridge this morning. All pretty low key with several EA Enforcement Team people present plus a representative from the contractor that will be enforcing payments. All were very happy to field my questions and discuss mooring problems.
Basically you are expected to register your arrival with the lock keeper and ensure you pay for the extra days if you go over 24 hours. If you don't pay the dues or if you overstay then the enforcement company will be advised by the EA and will take over collection of the monies due.
Read the notice carefully - it states quite clearly that by staying you accept the terms of the contract etc.
Basically you are expected to register your arrival with the lock keeper and ensure you pay for the extra days if you go over 24 hours. If you don't pay the dues or if you overstay then the enforcement company will be advised by the EA and will take over collection of the monies due.
Read the notice carefully - it states quite clearly that by staying you accept the terms of the contract etc.
Actionmat
Well-Known Member
Thanks for keeping us informed.
Did they have answers for the following?....
If you arrive out of lock hours, how long will they give you to ring up in the morning and register your arrival, before the camera operator issues a ticket?
Is the area under 24hr CCTV surveillance? Apart from mooring enforcement, will this work in our favour with regard to security?
Did they have answers for the following?....
If you arrive out of lock hours, how long will they give you to ring up in the morning and register your arrival, before the camera operator issues a ticket?
Is the area under 24hr CCTV surveillance? Apart from mooring enforcement, will this work in our favour with regard to security?
boatone
Well-Known Member
Read the smaller print near the bottom of the notice which starts with "WARNING"
I don't think there will be anything to fear as long as one acts reasonably. I know it mentions cameras but not sure if there are any on that site or where, but note that it refers to "in the event of a chargeable incident being recorded" which suggests there will need to be some evidence of delinquency.
I was there representing the TMBA and I was more interested in making sure I understood the sequence of events and how the transfer of collection responsibility between EA and the contractor would work. Bear in mind this is a trial scheme and in a particularly easy stretch for the EA to monitor as inspectors from Shepperton can visit Weybridge, Desborough and Walton moorings by boat in a matter of minutes.
I don't think there will be anything to fear as long as one acts reasonably. I know it mentions cameras but not sure if there are any on that site or where, but note that it refers to "in the event of a chargeable incident being recorded" which suggests there will need to be some evidence of delinquency.
I was there representing the TMBA and I was more interested in making sure I understood the sequence of events and how the transfer of collection responsibility between EA and the contractor would work. Bear in mind this is a trial scheme and in a particularly easy stretch for the EA to monitor as inspectors from Shepperton can visit Weybridge, Desborough and Walton moorings by boat in a matter of minutes.
Ramage
Well-Known Member
Ok. What happens when you arrive after Lock Hours? Presumably you phone the next morning. Does your 24 hours start from arrival or notification?
If you decide to stay for 72 hours how do you pay the £10. If you are moored opposite Weybridge Mariners you have no way to get to the Lock.
Either there needs to be some method of payment by phone OR someone needs to come and collect the mooring fee.
Pre-payment? Pay the lock-keeper for 72 hours mooring (£10) and find there is now no-where to moor?
What's the answer Tony?
If you decide to stay for 72 hours how do you pay the £10. If you are moored opposite Weybridge Mariners you have no way to get to the Lock.
Either there needs to be some method of payment by phone OR someone needs to come and collect the mooring fee.
Pre-payment? Pay the lock-keeper for 72 hours mooring (£10) and find there is now no-where to moor?
What's the answer Tony?
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teddington_lock
Well-Known Member
Is there not a little ferry at nauticalia ?
Ramage
Well-Known Member
There is, but that would of course cost more.
Mind you, Envag have boats, they could come and get it like SRB Moorings do!
Mind you, Envag have boats, they could come and get it like SRB Moorings do!