E-borders R4 You & Yours again...

FWB

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In response to You and Yours asking for views on e-borders after their bit last week....... I emailed them saying that I had wished that the yachting interest had been covered.

They cold called me this afternoon for an interview! I wasnt given much time--1 minute--and 1 question. I hope it came across ok. I managed to say that we were dependent on the weather and that we would be breaking the law if we changed our stated destination. No time for a discussion but I did suggest that they ring the RYA---who are they, they asked??
Hopefully there will be a yachting bias to this discussion which I'm told is going out on Bank Hol Monday.
 

marksaab

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Just a thought, E Borders is probably going to be as hot an issue as Red Diesel, any thoughts about having a seperate forum on the board for discussions?

BTW the R4 prog was good but the Govt spokesman seemed to be in cloud cuckoo land....assuming we all book holidays through travel agents etc and never change plans...let alone issues relating to sailing/boating/weather.

As people have said before, its an exit Visa scheme...terrifying!
 

Sailfree

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I may have missed this but I assume the e borders idea is to catch the terrorist that goes to a Pakistan training camp for a holiday.

Do many try to camouflage these terrorist training trips by saying they are going sailing in the Solent?
 

Gludy

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I agree. The Govt Spokesman on You and Yours was totally out of contact with reality.

He was also misusing statistics to cover matters up. The 2000 plus arrests so far happened without this new 'exit visa'.

It was clear though that they will ink all together so that, as he stated, they could if they wished stop you leaving the country because you have not paid your parking ticket - he stated that they might use those powers for stopping someone like Bin Laden on tax reasons but did not intend to do it for the normal citizen - yet they have that power to do just that!!!!

For those who want to listen to the program here is the link to the section on E-borders.



lick here to listen
 

andymcp

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[ QUOTE ]
Thanks Dylan. Does anyone know the Tory position on eborders? Tried to look at their website but nothing there (that I could find).

[/ QUOTE ]
If in doubt, consult the Torygraph. At the end of their article at the time it was announced, there was this from the party spokesman:

[ QUOTE ]
The scheme was condemned by Chris Grayling, the Tories' home affairs spokesman.

"Of course we need to keep a proper record of people as they come in and leave the country.

"My worry is that the Government is creating something which will be unwieldy, impossible to manage and expensive to operate.

"I think this system has to be much simpler."

[/ QUOTE ]
Which sounds to me an awful lot like saying that they're not entirely against it either....
 

Flossdog

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Hmmmm. Yes I think you are right. So no point in waiting for a change in government. Trouble is, no one in government goes a yachting it seems. As usual, the innocent 99.9999999% suffer for the 0.0000001%. I would really give my MP a hard time but he isn't a Labour MP so that won't help. 1984 was only 36 years late!
 

Koeketiene

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The scheme was condemned by Chris Grayling, the Tories' home affairs spokesman.

"Of course we need to keep a proper record of people as they come in and leave the country.

"My worry is that the Government is creating something which will be unwieldy, impossible to manage and expensive to operate.

"I think this system has to be much simpler."

[/ QUOTE ]
Which sounds to me an awful lot like saying that they're not entirely against it either....

[/ QUOTE ]

The Tories are in favour - they just would implement it differently.
The only party to oppose it outright are the LibDems
 

FinesseChris

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Tories are dumb on the subject: I emailed the national enquiry section on their central site a week ago and have had no reply. Nothing found on their website. I am going to try local prospective candidate, who is a billionaire and would seem likely to want to leave the country once in a while.

By the way, anyone up for an Isle of Wight property investment fund? Place should become a goldmine.

Chris
 

maxi77

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[ QUOTE ]


The Tories are in favour - they just would implement it differently.
The only party to oppose it outright are the LibDems

[/ QUOTE ]

Every country I have ever visited has counted the punters in and out, it is not rocket science but equally to work you have to make it both practical and enforcable. This half baked plan relies on electronic data only as far as I can see and will only penaise those who make mistakes, those who actually deliberately evade it will never be caught because the enfocement is not out in the field where tha bad guys operate.

The problem this bunch are so bloody arrogant (they make thatcher like like the model listener) they will not listen to real concerns as to how they may have got it wrong, mind you not counting at all would be even worse. If we really get some working system in in my lifetime they may actiually know who is in and who is out of the country by the time my kids pop their clogs.
 

EdWingfield

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Good for you Dylan.

Small boats are used for smuggling, and presumably people trafficking. The Mumbai terrorists demonstrated how effective boats are for a waterborne attack.

I think our best approach is to offer full compliance with a workable system.
 

Wino

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I heard the article on the radio and could not but help smile at his repeated comment ' so far we have caught (?) arrested (?) prevented leaving(?) 2800 persons .... From over 80,000, 000. Eighty Million!!! This equals (Very roughly ) 1 person for every 40,000 records inspected, is that really worth all the cost and trouble? NO IT IS NOT - So what is the real purpose of introducing what appears to be an exit visa from GB?
Also no one has said just how many of those 2800 arrested were actually charged and/or brought to Court and with what results?
He also kept going on about being 'concerned about migration' Why?
So, I must go on to ask why are 50 odd questions really needed by HMG? What is the real purpose behind all these questions?? So much for the freedom of the individual... Gnu Labour is getting very frightening.
In the whole of his ramble there was no mention of people who leave UK (a) by boat - Us (b) cars (c) touring etc. etc Is he really so unintelligent that he, or his masters, do not realise that not everybody goes by scheduled airlines/ferries/etc.
I had to laugh when he mentioned Bin Laden, does he really think any terrorist is going to mention his itinerary? Me I will always be 'going to France' Then travel from there to where ever I wish. The more I think about this whole affair the more stupid it appears on the surface and so I keep asking myself just what is its real purpose?
Gnu Labour is begging to look more like old Russia!
 

Koeketiene

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[ QUOTE ]

Every country I have ever visited has counted the punters in and out


[/ QUOTE ]

Really - travel to France, Belgium, Holland and Germany on a regular basis.
There's no-one counting /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Don't see them being 'blown up' any more than Britain.
 

Gludy

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All those arrest figures are a cover up that insults our intelligence - every one of those arrests happened before this new exist visa was applied so cannot be used to justify the visa and removal of freedom.

The minister seemed to think everyone travels only by package holiday
 

andymcp

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It's a pile of mince, impossible to implement and based on fundamentally flawed thinking for which nobody will be held accountable. On that basis, it'll definitely happen.
 

FinesseChris

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We may as well give up on the Tories, I fear. See their website:

BSAC Report:DTF Paper
A Border Protection Service for the UK
Policy Proposals
The Report of the Border Security Advisory Committee
Chairman: Lord Stevens
www.conservatives.com/.../Border%20Protection%20Service%20for%20the%20UK.ashx?dl=true - 2008-09-12

This is a pretty full and detailed report proposing a full Border Security Force (which may take in HM Coastguard in due course) and at Footnote 39 it mentions the e-borders scheme in glowing terms.

Who is Lord Stevens of Kirkwhelpington KStJ QPM DL FRSA? Former Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, that's who.

To quote Sir Terry Pratchet, "all the police want is for you to sit quietly at home with your hands on the table where they can see them..."

Oh well off to the Lib Dems...
C
 
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