Dylan was right!

Tam Lin

Tam Lin

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Well after spending last season working on my Centaur and launching it earlier this year the old Volvo MD2B has blown its head gasket and bent a pushrod. So now I am in the position that Dylan has talked about, having to make an expensive decision about an old diesel engine. Do I now try and get the old engine repaired (then possibly sell the boat as I don't think that I will be able to trust her again), fit a new engine and keep her or try to sell her as she is and buy a boat with an outboard, which will keep any future repair bills under control. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Mine is that you live and learn and learning costs you!
 
you have my sympathy

Tam Lin said:
Well after spending last season working on my Centaur and launching it earlier this year the old Volvo MD2B has blown its head gasket and bent a pushrod. So now I am in the position that Dylan has talked about, having to make an expensive decision about an old diesel engine. Do I now try and get the old engine repaired (then possibly sell the boat as I don't think that I will be able to trust her again), fit a new engine and keep her or try to sell her as she is and buy a boat with an outboard, which will keep any future repair bills under control. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Mine is that you live and learn and learning costs you!
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sorry to hear it

I would still have loved a Centaur.... but engines made me too frightened to buy one

however, it seems that you have got to fix it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbCJ_tKaDng
 
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I would rebuild it, replacing all worn parts, and keep the yacht for your own pleasure.
I overhauled my 1957 MF 35 tractor engine 17 years ago and it still runs like a dream. No reason why a rebuilt engine shouldn't be reliable if the job's a good 'un.
CJ
 
Tam Lin said:
Do I now try and get the old engine repaired (then possibly sell the boat as I don't think that I will be able to trust her again), fit a new engine and keep her or try to sell her as she is and buy a boat with an outboard, which will keep any future repair bills under control. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Mine is that you live and learn and learning costs you!
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I just cannot understand the "I don't think that I will be able to trust her again" bit. Why ever not? Fix it and sail it. No different from any other boat with an inboard engine. My VP MD17C is 32 years old and has had plenty of fixing and I spend the summer sailing around full of trust in my old boat.

You have a great boat and would sorely miss her if you changed to a smaller one that an outboard could push around. Try motoring with an outboard in a short chop when the propeller lifts out of the water every second wave; try refuelling in a gale offshore; try putting up with the whine of the high revs for hour after hour in a calm. No, I repeat, you have a great cruising boat, appreciate what you have and get it fixed.
 
A top end overhaul without removing the engine should be possible and a head gasket and pushrod shouldn't set you back a huge amount. Fitting a new engine even done yourself will be almost as much as the boat is worth. Engine reliability is rarely to do with the basic engine but all the bits that work on the periphery to start, stop, fuel and water it. Get your head around these and make sure they are tip top.

Yoda
 
It will all seem an unfixable disaster at first, and it's sod's law if it has happened just as summer has arrived, but after a few days of being used to the idea hopefully you'll get into "how do I fix this temporary problem?" mindset, and you'll be out boating again. It's only the engine, not even the main form of moving around for a sailing boat.
 
Rebuil rebuild rebuild..... It won't cost anywhere near as much as a new engine.

I have said this before on here, a rebuilt engine (as already stated,"correctly done") is as good and in some circumstances better than original. It will also give you the opportunity to clean the engine bay and check all connections to the engine.

I rebuilt my six cylinder lump for approx £1500 and that included engineering work not just parts, so around 1k should cover it at a guess.

Tom.

Ps. I had a Centaur some years ago and loved her, sailed like a dingy, great boat and very forgiving. Rebuild the engine and have years of pleasure using her, it's not a disaster.
 
Getting a new engine, fitting it & replacing the prop & shaft too will cost around 10 grand. You can replace a head gasket & pushrod for around 100 quid in an afternoon or two yourself. Very simple engines to work on. But do get the waterways cleaned out as much as you can while the heads are off. If you want to go sailing in the mean time, stick a bracket on the stern for a small o/b if you have one, even a 2hp on a dinghy tied alongside will get you in & out of harbour at slack water, or give you steerage if going with the tide. Don't let groundless fears stop you sailing JFDI!
 
Fix it; it will be much much cheaper to repair it, unfortunately it has spoiled your summer sailing season, however, I suggest that you fit an outboard bracket and use a small outboard (2.5 ~3.5 hp FOUR stroke) for the time being to get you by. I am not familiar with access to the engine on the Centaur, but removing the head and replacing pushrods, is an easy task. In theory it should take one day to remove and replace, however, in practise can take much longer.
 
I wondered about this when I saw Dylans original problem.

A new inboard 20hp engine seems to be about £8k and a new outboard 20hp is about £2-3k.

This may be an idiot question, but is there no way you can somehow replace an inboard with an outboard, by having an engine well where the inboard used to be or something? I mean, you'd have something like £4k to play with?? :-)
 
I suffered a failed head gasket with a single cylinder Yanmar engine, one of the old YSE ones. The cause was simply that the cylinder head bolts were very coarse threaded and had backed off. I took the head off in little more than half an hour, took it home to clean it up, bought a new gasket and put the head back on in around an hour the following weekend. Your problem may well be little more than that.
 
Renewing the head gasket and pushrods would be a fairly simple task if access is good and no bolts shear off. Not knowing the Centaur engine compartment layout, I can't comment but anticipate some degree of difficulty - things are always harder on a boat. BTW I heard that Dylan's engine problem was sorted using a 2 x 4 baulk as a lever and applying some welly and it is now able to run in forward, neutral and reverse.
 
I know several people with Centaurs & Anderson 26's; they have all re-engined by now with Nanni or Beta engines, average cost a few years ago was £5,000.

I agree with those saying ' fix it ', if you're happy with the boat otherwise sell her; after all she's a sailing boat, the engine is just a convenient Plan B !

If unhappy with the Centaur for other reasons get a boat with an outboard in a well, hopefully stowable for faster sailing and anti-corrosion; if there are any snags with the engine you can take it home to work on, or trundle it to a mechanic.
 
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got it running

ghostlymoron said:
Renewing the head gasket and pushrods would be a fairly simple task if access is good and no bolts shear off. Not knowing the Centaur engine compartment layout, I can't comment but anticipate some degree of difficulty - things are always harder on a boat. BTW I heard that Dylan's engine problem was sorted using a 2 x 4 baulk as a lever and applying some welly and it is now able to run in forward, neutral and reverse.
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the gear box did drop out of gear using the technique suggested

sadly the old engine refused to turn over this spring -

I had it in commssion right through the yer so maybe it did not like the winter rest

now the engine is out and a replacement is being created using the best bits from the beast and an ebay special

so... lovely weather at the moment for the new owner ... but a boat out of commission

I enjoyed the slug, I loved the heat and the electricity the beast produced, I liked the fact that you could talk while the thing was running

I loved the fuel economy, I actually liked the sound of it on low tickover

however, it gave me three pretty unpleasant financial kickings - and even worse cost me about 15 summer weeks out of commission

so few regrets about going back to outboards

pull the rope and away it goes, if it fails to start then fire up the spare and take the faulty one home to the garage to fix it or scrap it

meanwhile replacing it with one of the two other spares I have in the garage

I think that I will never go back to an inboard unless it is a newish one in a newish installation and I can afford to have it professionally maintained

D

PS - I also like having bilges that I clean with a dustpan and brush rather than half a gallon of bilge cleaner, several gallons of water and a long handled scrubbing brush
 
this thread is crazy. outboards are only suitable for trailer sailers which are too small to accept a diesel inboard. your centaur is not a trialer sailer and has been designed by a naval archetect to have an inboard motor. Diesel engines are far more reliable than petrol outboards, the fuel is safer and the prop is a large one turning slowly deeply immersed in water - all suited to driving a displacement hull through the seas.
It can be demoralising when your motor dies, particularly at the start of the season but we have all been there its absolutley no reason to panic or never trust the boat again.
You will spend more money on fitting a new engine to your centaur than you can probably go out and buy another centaur with a newish beta or nanni so I doubt a new engine is a viable option.
unlike the somewhat disposable kubota base of the former engines your volvo has been designed to be rebuilt and repaired so for the damage you describe a repair in situ should be both economical and straightforward. there are plenty of places that can skim the head for you and lap the valves in. doubt that will cost more than a hundred.
If prior to this failure the engine was already a bag of nails with next to no compression then I would advocate sourcing a decent used example of the same engine you have. This has the advantage that it should mate with your existing mounts etc and will make installation easy DIY if you are not confident. then rebuild your old engine in slow time in your garage. You will learn a lot in the process.
Honestly its just a case of mind over matter I have replaced and rebuilt engines in all the yachts I have had and they were all heavy 4 cylinder units watermota or perkins. When the watermota in my contessa overheated and seized I was quoted £13K for a new vetus engine. I bought a used watermota for £500. swapped the gearbox over and hey presto. the biggest faff was alignment, that took me a few days. I then spent a winter stripping the old motor in the garage kept the useful bits injectors, pump etc then shot the block out. I learned loads taking the old brute apart. I was never afraid of or in awe of that engine again.

Its just a lump of metal. You need to show it who's boss.

keep your outboard for the dinghy mate they have no place as a means of propulsion in an offshore yacht.
god knows, I have towed enough people to safety when an outboard has let them down at sea.
 
Contessaman,

I'm sorry to say that is one of the most clueless pieces of drivel I've seen on these forums !

My boat is not a trailer sailer, I'd suggest Dylan's isn't either, but they benefit from an outboard in a well.

Removable for more sailing speed, also to avoid or cut off lobster pot lines.

The prop has only come out of the water once in the Little Russel but it wasn't a problem.

I have had an Evinrude 4, Yamaha 4 and a Mariner 5, never a failure since 1978.

The boat has done at least 20 Channel crossings, usually Solent to Guernsey, and she has beat into prolonged F11 squalls, as observed by the TS Royalist.

Most Contessa's were good boats, but they are not the only ones.
 
Last year I had what seemd like a catastophic failure of my VP MD2C circa 1978 ( plus one full rebuild in 1992) Hole through one of the cylinder liners resulting in crankcase filling with salt water.

2 new liners, pistons associated rings gudgeon pins and gasket sets later £900.00 the poorer but now with an intimate knowledge of my engine she runs sweeter than before. All parts purchased from Volvo Penta Tollesbury who I know get a bit of bad press in regrad to Volvo = £££. But they giave me a useful discount and helped with some guidance.

I too had costed a new engine and once adding all the bits like new prop (they go the other way around on the new ones) exhaust, engine controls and mountings, shaft and a whole bunch of other bits and bobs the final number came out at £8,000 but would likley end up nearer 10K.

Repairing these engines is like meccano just follow the workshop manual (free download) make sure its all clean and oiled and dont take apart anything that was working ok before before the failure (Injectors vale rockers etc). Only special tools I needed was a torque rwrench (borrowed from a mate and and a piston ring compressor, (made from a couple of jubilee clips ariound a strip of thin gauge aluminium) also made a pronged wooden wedge to hold the piston in place when the cylinder was being slid back on.

Finally dont just buy the head gasket buy the whole gasket set its not much more and you get some useful stuff.

All the best (member of the dont knock Centaurs and MD2 engine society, total membership 1:)
 
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Seajet said:
Contessaman,

I'm sorry to say that is one of the most clueless pieces of drivel I've seen on these forums !
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Not as much as yours! I echo Contessaman entirely. Centaurs where never designed to be powered by an egg whisk. A slow revving diesel with the prop well immersed is what they need, and what they've got.

Of course outboards have their place on smaller boats where a decent engine space can't be created, or where weight is an issue. And where shorter trips are the norm so you don't suffer the damn thing buzzing and squeaking for hours and hours. But the Centaur fits none of those three categories.

BTW, inboards rarely get stolen. Outboards often feature on the 'dodgy' stand at boat jumbles.
 
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