Duty on petrol

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nickjaxe

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Subject: Duty back on petrol
I was thinking how unfair it is the somebody with a diesel engine in there boat pays about 33% of what I pay, [red derv] and good luck to them as well, but I was wondering if HM customs have ever been challenged about the duty on petrol for marine use, ie not being used in a road vehicles, wonder how it works for light aircraft that use petrol, if they get any dispensation, seem all very unfair to me, the sub aqua club I belong to would love to be able to claim the duty back to pay for much needed equipment, comments please.

Nick in cheshire.


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The reason there isn't duty on Derv is because when the rules were laid down so few people had boats it wasn't really an issue. The main users were commercial vessels. Even 20 years ago there were far far less private craft than there are today. I can remember the Hamble when Marina's couldn't fill their berths and Lymington Town Quay was almost always empty barring weekends when horror of horrors one some times had to bank out as many as two boats. Boating really took off in the late 1960s before that it generally the preserve of the rich and genteel and was the last bastion of gentlemanly conduct. I'm glad I am old enough to recall those days.

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Byron, I reckon you are right, was not an issue so long ago as so few boats were about, I learnt to sail on the Hamble a little over 20 years ago and there was a lot less craft about then, I reckon one of the reasons for the explosion of boats other than changes in the economy is the arrival of GRP boats, as a material it lends itselft to building lots of boats and spreading the development cost making them more accessible to the masses, whereas this is not the case with proper wooden boats like mine...

Plus, older generations, like my grand parents for example, would not have used credit facilities or 'tick', how many of the boats on the river now are financed? most of them I should think, I suspect 30 or 40 odd years ago there was a less.

<hr width=100% size=1>Sod the Healey - I think I'll buy an E-Type.
 
If the club has been set up as a business, you should be able to claim back the VAT at least, or come to some arrangement with the VAT Inspector.

<hr width=100% size=1>How much to fill'er up!
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Hi,

You only get red derv in the UK. In Europe you buy diesel with duty paid and some folk have had problems with French customs over their red stuff.

In my own view the dispensation afforded boat owners over diesel is anachronistic. It cannot be right that the fuel is so cheap, especially given the concerns over the environment and global warming. If our road haulage fleet has to pay duty then there is no reason why the pleasure boat industry shouldn't do likewise. A significant hike in tax would encourage more responsible use of this non-renewable resource.

A very welcome side effect would be a huge reduction in the number of big heavy power boats blasting through our coastal waters (especially in the Solent) with a corresponding reduction in noise, pollution and wash.

It might not have stopped the trio of motorboats I saw that seemed to be deliberately weaving at high speed in amongst the sailing fleet last weekend causing huge disruption with their wash. It would have given me a lot of satisfaction to know that their antics were at least emptying their pockets at a significant rate.

As for sailing vessels with a diesel engine then surely the cost of diesel isn't really that significant. After all, you do have these big flappy white things to help you along.

Regards



Ian

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<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

You only get red derv in the UK. In Europe you buy diesel with duty paid and some folk have had problems with French customs over their red stuff.

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Not true, there are several EEC countries with Red Deisel, Belgium & Finland to name two. The French only blitz boats that have been somewhere like up the Seine and returning, they then calculate fuel burned to see if you have bought untaxed fuel illegally from say a home heating supplier. In theory they cannot prevent you from having a Tanker down to the Docks of a seaport and making your purchase that way, provided you are not French registered. Though frankly I would not want to test the latter
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Hi,

I stand corrected. However I'd be very cautious about standing on my rights anywhere near France. The policy seems to be "Levy a fine first and ask questions later."

Regards


Ian

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The amount of fuel burned and this pollution caused by the leisure boater is negligible compared to the road haulage types. Who ran more than 400 hours last season, or this combined? 400 hours is 50 days or so for a long distance lorry, under 1/4 of a year's use. We (don't we boys and girls) maintain our engines well to reduce smoke where possible, and burn as little fuel as posible commensurate with fun. While the concept of red diesel is an anomaly I dispute that it is in any significant way a contributer to pollution such that there would be a significant reduction in carbon emissions. NAturally Greenpeace etc will insist that I am wrongm because I'm a rich s0d 'cos I own a boat (as opposed to a car, take the bus, so that's my ecological footprint reduced!).

As for twenty years or so, I was boating (as a child I hasten to add) on the canals in the 1970s and using red diesel in a narrowboat, like most other narrowboats. Petrol was dirt cheap then, by our standards, and our narrowboat seemed less smoky than all those two stroke engines puttering along.

And we haven't yet remarked on efficiency, miles travelled per unit emission.

But, and you saw it here first, expect the EU to impose emissions check on boats in the manner of the MOT for cars, probably dressed up as a "safety initiative".

Cheap fuel keeps more people afloat and boating, think of those who bought a boat from Granny's will and can afford their hobby by using tidal swinging moorings and because red diesel is 30 odd pence per litre.

"Sorry, you can't be a boater anymore, you are not rich enough to pay for enough fuel to make it worth while".

<hr width=100% size=1>Two beers please, my friend is paying.
 
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

Plus, older generations, like my grand parents for example, would not have used credit facilities or 'tick'

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I must be from the same generation. I have never had credit to buy a boat. In fact the thought never entered my head. If I couldn't write a cheque then I couldn't afford it. I guess that's why back in the 1960s I saw contemporaries with Fairey 33s while I could only afford a Cobra 33 at half the price.

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Given a choice I wouldn't use credit but the reality is that without it I couldn't afford a boat worth having whilst I can enjoy it with the kids. I am considering increasing the 'tick' so that we can all enjoy extended cruising before they reach the 'parents are an embarrasing but neccesary evil' stage. I suspect there are many, like me, who do not have the luxury of a high income to enable such a large cash purchase.

As for the duty on fuel I can't believe that anyone really believes that policy on taxing fuel at the pumps is genuinely motivated by concern for the environment - it simply raises revenue for the government. The only way it would work is if the cost became prohibitive but then we would need an effective public transport infrastructure......!!!

At an average of 50 hours per year our contribution to pollution is relatively negligible - presumably so too would our contribution to the Treasury so hopefully Gordon will keep his hands off!

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I'm not sure it's a generation thing. I only buy what I can pay cash for. Boat, car. They're all paid for without tick. Then I know I can afford them, and if things go *** upwards, they're an asset rather than a liability

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