Dutch Diesel Scam

[timbartlett]

It seems that the Dutch authorities have been imposing fines on British boats with red diesel in their tanks. Apparently they "don't know" that red diesel is still OK over here.

No doubt, like law "enforcement" officials the world over, they would happily claim that "ignorance was no excuse" if they caught some poor Brit doing something illegal. So presumably the same is true when they do something illegal.

Something as illegal as -- for instance -- demanding money with menaces, or obtaining money by fraudulently claiming a fine to which they are not entitled.

Government incompetence and dishonesty is not confined to the UK -- but how the hell do we fight it?

 

[Shannoner]

[ QUOTE ]


but how the hell do we fight it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't go to Holland, come to Ireland instead, we have no problem with the red stuff, and anyway, Guinness is much nicer than Heineken /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[Gludy]

We organise a petition stating that we do not intend to ever visit Holland and why they are breaching the law.
We send it to the Dutch Tourist Board and Embassy.
We copy it to our MP's.
Publicity would change this - its based on ignorance.

The magazines can also approach the Dutch Tourist Baord and Embassy asking for an interview - that would help a lot.

I am beginning to understabd where the expression 'double dutch' stems from now.

 

[SimonC]

Hi Paul

We have already spoken to Dutch customs, the EU and the UK Government.

You can see a brief summary of the results here.

As you say, the situation is based on ignorance and, according to Dutch customs, once they receive a clear position from the UK they are happy to proceed as normal.

Obviously the hard bit now is keeping on at them and ensuring that (a) the EU and the UK do what they said they would and (b) the Dutch take that on board and adapt their policy.

 

[Gludy]

Good news - I hope the message gets through - maybe all going to Holland should take a copy of the july MBM with them as some sort of backup info?

 

[clivew05]

Does this mean that all those UK boaters that have already been fined illegally will get their money back? Maybe the UK Government should reimberse them as a gesture for not making the situation clear to our european cousins ...

 

[Marsupial]

Yes it is a strange one, as I understand it the Dutch customs are looking to the UK government for clarity so they (the dutch) can adjust their policy implementation - does that mean they dont have control of what they do? Since when does the UK government have any say in what the Dutch do? or vis vera.

My open message to the Dutch : You are a "banana republic" but dont worry, we've got the message, your shops, pubs and resturants won't be troubled by us any more.

 

[Major Catastrophe]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Paul

We have already spoken to Dutch customs, the EU and the UK Government.

You can see a brief summary of the results here.

As you say, the situation is based on ignorance and, according to Dutch customs, once they receive a clear position from the UK they are happy to proceed as normal.

Obviously the hard bit now is keeping on at them and ensuring that (a) the EU and the UK do what they said they would and (b) the Dutch take that on board and adapt their policy.

[/ QUOTE ]

It doesn't help with Suzanne Bosman of the Dutch embassy writing to me and others saying that she has contacted HM Revenue and Customs and they told her that white diesel was available in all British ports. So presumably, if you fill up with red and then head over to Dutchland, it is your fault if you get fined.

Anyway, it has been discussed on this thread as well as on Scuttlebutt.

 

[pheran]

Oh do get a grip you lot. How very Daily Mail. 'Lets start a petition.......' 'Lets boycot Holland..........'. What totally childish reactions. This is clearly a misunderstanding that can easily be put right, as the Dutch have indicated. It seems too that they are the victims of mis-information eg the ready availability of white diesel to boaters. The fact is the derogations were withdrawn at the end of last year and nobody has bothered to publicise the transitional arrangements.
And as for [ QUOTE ]
You are a "banana republic" but dont worry, we've got the message, your shops, pubs and resturants won't be troubled by us any more.


[/ QUOTE ] all I can say is bring it on. There are already too many instances of misbehaving Brits causing trouble over there although I will concede not all of these are down to boaters. I would be quite happy to be 'The only Brit on the Polder'

 

[andyball]

Quite right - I shan't be throwing out the Edam & Gouda yet.

 

[Gludy]

in fact the Dutch problem is not really that simple. Its an example of what is going to be a significant problem.

A boat trvelling to Holland a month after November 2008 will be expected to have no red in its tanks? Hardly likely - there will be indications of red in many boats for years.

Then what about charter boats that are entitled ro continue with red? What about sailing boats that still have small tank fulls of red?

In fact the Dutch problem is just an example of the confusion and chaos that government mismanagment can have on us.

All we know now is that after Nov 2008 no more red for pleasure craft but all the problems of enforcing and implementing that change over have not even begun to be dealt with.

 

[neale]

[ QUOTE ]
Then what about charter boats that are entitled ro continue with red?

[/ QUOTE ]

We don't know of this is going to be the case. It is just as likley that Red will no longer be available to ANY boats and those that are entitled, such as fishing and commercial boats, will fill with full price white, and claim the duty back.

 

[clivew05]

[ QUOTE ]
Quite right - I shan't be throwing out the Edam & Gouda yet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Certainly not they are the best cheeses around .... hehe and baby bell of course - mind you I also like blue cheese, scottish mature in fact all cheeses hehe ..... Ive never been to Holland but was intending to go either this year or next .... I guess Ill wait until they are aware of the situation as a fine would make the trip non financially viable ..... /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[longjohnsilver]

[ QUOTE ]
It is just as likley that Red will no longer be available to ANY boats and those that are entitled, such as fishing and commercial boats, will fill with full price white, and claim the duty back.

[/ QUOTE ]

In that case I bet all fishermen will suddenly be driving around in diesel cars and will have lots of diesel car owning friends!

 

[neale]

Very possibly. These are the sort of issues that need looking into and resolving before Nov 08.

 

[Gludy]

But nobody is looking into thee issues and resolving them --- its sweep under the carpet management from HM Government.

 

[pheran]

Some progress then, as instead of blaming the Dutch, we are last recognising that this is a UK problem which will also manifest itself in France, Spain et al and in the UK itself. As others have identified, this is once again down to our totally incompetent Government whose whole history is one of headline announcements and absolutely no follow through. Todays announcement on drinking is a classic example. No evidence of a problem sufficient to justify legislation and not a thought on the practicalities of implementation.

 

[rogerthebodger]

This is just another example of the tax man in the Dutch Customs and/or HMCR being Judge, jury and executioner.

It should be that if customs consider a law has been broken that a court should decide on guilt and not customs and if anyone is forced to pay a so-called fine without a visit to court with proper represtination that is a breach of your human rights and as someone else said is simple extorsion which in itself is a criminal offence.

The problem is we just allow ths to happen as we have no way , in effect, to enforce our rights and the authorities have created this and know it.

It is in effect only about money and how to extract as much as possible from us the people.

rant over

 

[Bergman]

According to one or two posts the effective date for any trace og red resulting in a fine is 01/01/2008.

I have involved my MEP who is putting this to the EU Commision. The MEP is of the opinion that this aspect at least is not only unreasonable but actually illegal under EU law.

I suspect it may infringe the Charter of human rights in that it makes an act which was legal when committed, illegal after it was committed.

I guess wait and see.

No-one seems to want to answer the question about the Dutch Customs policy on Dutch yachts who have visited the UK and filled up with red before returning to Cloggy land. It seems that this is acceptable to the Dutch customs.

Meanwhile I have cancelled my trip to Holland and we're going to Scotland instead.

The Dutch may speak better English but at least the Scots don't rob you.

 

[pheran]

[ QUOTE ]
The Dutch may speak better English but at least the Scots don't rob you

[/ QUOTE ] Wake up and smell the coffee! The Scots have been robbing the English via the Barnet Formula for years. Thats how they can afford to do away with student tuition fees, provide free care for the elderly, provide drugs on the NHS that are denied to the English.......Shall I go on???