Drying creek mooring - Bilge or Lift keel

[Prologica1]

Hi All,
Hoping to move soon to a house with access to a drying creek off the Colne. I think it dries mostly 0.9m mostly mud, some sand and shingle nearby.
My only experience is on fixed keel yachts so would welcome views on whether it must be bilge keel or whether lift keel is a possibility. Probably looking at an inexpensive 23-27 footer as I have share in 34 foot fin keel elsewhere.
But key question is whether a lift keel is viable or not. I would be needing to lay a mooring.
Thanks

 

[MikeBz]

Curious - Alresford Creek?

Bilge keel or lift keel will work, but some lift keelers are prone to mud/stones getting wedged in the slot and preventing the keel from dropping. I'd go for a bilge keeler not least because it's a lot easier to scrub the bottom.

 

[Prologica1]

Thanks. Yes, getting the slot wedged was my thought too!

 

[Snowgoose-1]

Some liftkeelers still have a bit of keel poking out which offsets the problem. Anderson 22 is one so is the Trapper ts240 . Both genuine lift Keeler's.

 

[pmagowan]

I suppose it depends on your other criteria. Either will solve the issue of drying out with various pros and cons but both may handle differently under sail. I have to say that I don't like bilge keels (or have not liked any I have sailed) for their sailing performance. However I am used to fixed keels and a lift keel more accurately reflects this type of sailing.

 

[prologica]

Thanks all. Creel PMd then disappeared? that lift keelers that leave a bit of keel protruding when lifted may not suffer the same jamming issues with stones etc. Any one else have experience of that benefit?

 

[Pye_End]

I had a swing keel Sonata up at Maylandsea Creek on a mooring and it spent more time jammed than usable. Not just stones and shells, but the mud itself a problem. Perhaps a Parker? One of the designs that allows some pressure downwards is probably going to be ok. All sorts of keels were up there at the time.

Just to 'muddy the waters' maybe worth considering a long keel such as a Yarmouth. Relatively shallow, and surely will sit upright.

 

[Prologica1]

Thanks all. Creel PMd then disappeared? that lift keelers that leave a bit of keel protruding when lifted may not suffer the same jamming issues with stones etc. Any one else have experience of that benefit?

Correction: that was Snowgoose-1 !

 

[LittleSister]

Thanks all. Creel PMd then disappeared? that lift keelers that leave a bit of keel protruding when lifted may not suffer the same jamming issues with stones etc. Any one else have experience of that benefit?

The disadvantage of that is the projecting bit of keel usually leaves the boat heeling when it's dried out if on a firm bottom. (May not apply if your creek has a soft mud bottom.) Such a keel arrangement can have the advantage that it puts a significant bit of the weight of the keel low down when the keel dropped.

 

[Corribee Boy]

Presumably a lift keeler would be lower to the mud, and so float off quicker, than a bilge keeler?

 

[DanTribe]

Some creeks can have steeply sloping banks, a bilge keeler could settle fairly precariously sometimes.

 

[PeterWright]

There are many bilge keel designs that sail well. For me the downside of a bilge keeler is the large bending stress imposed on the keel mountings when she dries out on a harder surface - not a problem when the keels can sink into a soft bed of mud but quite an issue when her keels are repeatedly pounded by the waves on a sand / mud mixture as the tide ebbs. Too many bilge keel boats have died due to their keel stubs cracking under this sort of loading.

I fully accept the issues of jamming lift keels. All these design choices are compromises, there is no perfect answer.

Peter.

 

[WoodyP]

Not all bilge keels spread. Twin keels was the term used by the designer and builder of kingfisher yachts and you can drop them from the slings and cause more damage to the yard.

 

[Rum Run]

The answer is an Anderson 22. What was the question again?


They have a keel bulb that is fitted to the hull bottom that blocks any access by mud or shell, so the keel reliably drops. Draught 2'3" keel up and will sail in that condition.
Not an expensive boat nowadays either.

 

[Prologica1]

Thanks all for a wide variety of views which I will take into account! I understand the creek is soft mud with salt marsh edges, only steep to where it meets a sandy knoll. Hope to be moved there next month so will check it out fully.

 

[ianc1200]

If it is Alresford Creek then there used to be an Anderson 22 kept there. Anderson 22's have a bulb on the end of the drop keel half of which goes into a recess in the hull molding. Used to have one - quite an effort to winch up.

 

[prologica]

No it’s not Alresford Creek

i guess the disadvantages of life keel are the impact on space in the cabin? And if taking the ground twice a day on the mooring, even in soft mud it will erode the anti foul? Maybe also a little more interesting if aboard waiting for the tide, due to the heeling?
Ive never sailed lift keel or bilge keel so not speaking from a position of knowledge.

 

[MikeBz]

I think you shouldn't necessarily make your mind up about lift keel vs. bilge keel from the outset - there are a lot of compromises in all boats and some offset others depending on your tastes & requirements. There are a lot of pros & cons of both, as this thread shows. I would roughly pin down budget and what size of boat I want and then research everything that might suit, and then start weeding out from there.

AFAIK the only creeks off the Colne are Brightlingsea (no sand/shingle in the areas with moorings), Pyefleet (all mud), Geedon (ditto, and no moorings), and Alresford. Curiosity piqued!

 

[penfold]

Getting on when the tide is out is a messy proposition unless it's possible to have a gangplank.

 

[Cobra]

I think you shouldn't necessarily make your mind up about lift keel vs. bilge keel from the outset - there are a lot of compromises in all boats and some offset others depending on your tastes & requirements. There are a lot of pros & cons of both, as this thread shows. I would roughly pin down budget and what size of boat I want and then research everything that might suit, and then start weeding out from there.

AFAIK the only creeks off the Colne are Brightlingsea (no sand/shingle in the areas with moorings), Pyefleet (all mud), Geedon (ditto, and no moorings), and Alresford. Curiosity piqued!

You forgot the Roman River Mike...although to be honest I cannot think of any moorings up there other than a fishing boat right in the entrance. Then of course you have Ray Creek round the back of Second Beach which would have a hard sand bottom on either side with muddy sand as you get further up the creek.