Dromor Venus 16 opinions

[gpvs]

Hello!

I'm looking at an opportunity to purchase the Dromor Venus 16 (Plus?) sailboat made by the Greek Dromor/Kormos shipyard.
8 Dromor VENUS 16 Plus – Google Drive
I'm looking for a solid base to which I will contribute over time and a size from which I will not grow out of. So I'm more interested in technical details, hard-to-service parts and their state, and less interested in states of vanity, accommodation, and replaceables.

As Venuses 16 are mostly local to Greece and rather rare, technical details for it are hard to find. Committing to trials as is may cause me to miss other competitive opportunities. I'm looking for someone who has first/second-hand experience with them.
My concerns are:

• I've heard its hull is a sandwich. What does it consist of? Does it withstand the test of time? Can water get inside? Is it (sanely) serviceable? How are stiffening ribs implemented with sandwiches? Does it use beams (or what the correct term is) for stiffening?
• How does it sail? Is it a 'dry deck'? Does it heel a lot? Is one mast enough to move this size/weight while keeping it stable? Is it a 'chill cruise' boat overall, or maybe it went in another direction? Can it do some ocean? Would it?
• How is the deck made? Sandwich? Should I expect to be changing it soon?
• What about the two-engine thing? Was it necessary? Is it done right?

Maybe someone has technical details for how it was constructed?

Please share your experience and opinions.

 

[gpvs]

I've seen @penfold @penfold.4710 talking about having experience with one. Could you please share?

 

[Tranona]

Doubt you will find anybody here with any experience of this boat. It has a good design pedigree and the construction looks conventional for the time. Foam sandwich in both the hull above the waterline and particularly on deck is very common and is usually little problem except if fittings have been attached through the deck without adequate sealing. This means water can get it.

This is a big complex boat and not one for the faint hearted or short of time and money. Your photos show a well used boat that probably needs a lot of effort and money to get it running reliably. The photo of the front of the keel seems to show some serious damage which could be costly to repair.

Difficult to say whether the boat is suitable for your needs. The style is not an out and out performance sailing boat, hence the twin engines which were considered a good idea at the time. This sailboatdata.com/sailboat/venus-16/ gives you the design data. The design brief was probably for a comfortable long legged cruising boat with a flexible (2 headsail) rig and good performance under engine.

If this style of boat appeals and you have the means to own and run one, then the next stage is to get an experienced surveyor to check it out for you.

 

[gpvs]

@Tranona Thank you for the info!
I'm looking for a boat to keep, so I'm going over negative scenarios. Sandwich hull is my biggest concern at the moment. Would you please share knowledge on these matters:
- What if water did find its way into the sandwich? Is it repairable locally? Does the water spread through internal space? Does it cause delamination (well, if so, I guess it would mean it does spread)? Can the foam rot out? What are the maintenance and repair plans for all that?
- You mentioned a sandwich in the hull specifically above the waterline. Is there a design with a sandwich above and a solid below the waterline? Do you know whether this applies to this particular model, or do they have a sandwich throughout?
- Is lore available on what particular foam was used in this model/year?

 

[Tranona]

Sandwich construction in the sense that panels of either foam or balsa are built into the laminate is pretty universal now and was well established when this boat was built. Very few boats have sandwich below the waterline. Generally in hulls it is trouble free and really no way that water can get in as areas where fittings are bolted through are usually solid GRP. This is also true to an extent for decks except that it is possible that some fastenings may go through the foam cored areas. Screwing teak onto decks is a typical example as is adding new fittings. Delamination of hulls is rare because at that time hulls were generally overbuilt but large expanses of foredecks can flex and cause delamination. Usually easy to spot with a non teak deck because they feel springy when walked on. All of these potential issues are relatively easy to spot in a good survey. You may be able to get more details on the design and construction from the designers who are still a major design company in Germany.

Personally I would be less concerned about the basic structure (except the damage to the keel) than about the rig and equipment on the boat as it is that which will eat up money for replacements and upgrading. One of the attractions of older boats is that generally the basic structures are considered to be well built, but equipment less so by modern standards. Add in decades of usage with periods of non usage and neglect result in a boat that needs far more spent on it than the purchase price.

This theyachtmarket.com/en/boats-for-sale/dromor/venus-16/id2763584/ looks like the boat. Needs serious time and money spending on it. Only you know whether you are prepared to do that. Get a full survey and schedule of work required.

 

[gpvs]

Thank you @Tranona, this is very helpful!
Now I have an idea of what to look for regarding the hull.
Yes, I'm pretty sure that link is for the boat. The attraction of an older boat you mentioned is on point. I have extras to put into it, be that replaceables or work without highly specialized equipment. I'm just worried about (not) facing structural or constructional issues, possibly hidden, years later.
Design company in Germany? I didn't know. Yet it's known they were built in Greece. Is it considered okay for a stranger to ask a design company or shipyard for build plans or details, etc.?
I won't be able to tell a good surveyor from a bad one by the looks, and I have evidence of some surveyors doing a bad job in the region (well, worse than me at some details, me never having a boat before). Could you or someone please recommend somebody? The Venus is about 40 minutes from Athens, Greece.

 

[Tranona]

This is the company that designed the boat judel-vrolijk.com/en/ They are perhaps the top yacht designers in Germany - they design all the Hanse yachts for example. they probably have the records of the boats they designed for Dromor.

You are right to be wary of surveyors, particularly where you are (I kept my boat in Greece for 10 years!). Frankly this is not a yacht for an inexperienced beginner. Like many similar boats the original owner will have been wealthy and would have had all the best that was available at the time. However such people rarely keep their boats long term so they slide down to other less wealthy owners who often keep the boat for a short period until the cost of running it becomes too much. Almost all these boats end up working for a living as low grade charter boats until they end up on the hard like this one with a broken engine, damaged keel from running aground looking like a tip inside - even the cooker is broken. Optimistically asking a price of less than 10% of what a similar boat would cost to buy new.

Ignore the asking price. That is almost irrelevant in a long term project such as you are describing. I could see easily 3 or 4 times as much as that on getting it up to a reasonable standard even if you do a lot yourself. Even if you have to employ contractors you could be looking at a year's work managing the project - deciding what needs doing, how to do it, sourcing parts, managing contractors and so on. Inevitably once you start doing things you find more things need doing. It quickly becomes a full time job. I have almost finished a refit on a modest 31' boat and it has taken 3 years and cost over twice as much as my initial conservative estimate. This was not my first project either, I have built 2 smaller boats and owned a similar older boat for 30 years during which I replaced or upgraded just about everything - rig, interior fitout, electrics, electronics, new engine and laid a new teak deck.

Sorry if this sounds negative, but the success rate on projects of this size is low as you will see from the number of similar boats lying in yards unloved, part complete or just abandoned. So the question is not really about whether this particular design is any good, but whether you have the capability time and money to take it on/