Drink driving on the river

[DWT]

I have been reading about this in the latest issue of MBM. How on earth are they going to police it, particularly on the river? One of the pleasures of boating is being able to cruise along with a couple of glasses of something and for many of us this is what a day on the river is all about

I am not suggesting we should all be able to take our boats out while we are completely tanked up, I am quite capable of making a mess of a lock or mooring whilst sober so do not want to make it even more difficult, but I really do not want to have to start counting units.

Is drink boating really a problem?

 

[Chris_d]

Don't know how this will effect us river users, I've started hiding my tinnie/glass under the dash now out of sight. I wouldn't dream of drinking whilst underway at sea. But river conditions are so different, you just couldn't explain it to your average raggie for instance. How could you make any sort of case to allow it, lets just hope lockkeepers continue to turn a blind eye, but it won't last will it.

 

[Andrew_Fanner]

Talked this one through with an officer of the law on Saturday evening, over many drinks on board. His (not official) opinion is that it will be almost impossible to police unless the lok keepers are empowered to do it, and that will be awkward to do and frankly they have enough on ther plates when its busy. Of course, after hours would then be "safe" and after dark doubly so.

 

[bcutts]

I too cannot see how it can be policed since I understand that only the police themselves can breathalyse you.

So imagine, you are pulled up by the EA for suspected drink driving and stop you leaving the area until the police arrive.

So whilst you are there, moored up, waiting for the police, and not sailing, you have a couple of tinnies... now what?? They can't prosecute as you are drinking whilst not underway, they have no power to arrest you and they cannot restrain you from drinking. Also, the PC plod does arrive, they cannot gauge what your alcohol limits were before you had the tinnies!!

Total waste of time if you ask me. Seems to be the usual governmental 'knee jerk' policy.

 

[Andrew_Fanner]

The, er, suggestiuon from my police pal Saturday. A technique he plans to use himself if need be.

 

[byron]

just another set of nonsense and officialdom inflicted on us by our bosses. Whatever next? Banning smokers from Pubs ? /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[pheran]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, the PC plod does arrive, they cannot gauge what your alcohol limits were before you had the tinnies!!


[/ QUOTE ] Oh yes they can. They have very well established formulae for correlating your measured blood-alcohol levels with what you claim to have consumed and the time since you claim to have had your last drink. Its used frequently for drink-drivers who have left the scene and then claim to have had a couple 'to steady their nerves'. So think on!!

 

[Andrew_Fanner]

That was pointed out to me as well. Its not that precise if there is much delay, say an hour or so to find an officer with time to make his way, possibly on foot, to a lock in the middle of nowhere on the say so of a third party

It comes down to a willingness to pursue.

 

[pheran]

I can quote case history on this one. Dave O, our village piss-head, leaves the pub after a lunchtime session, pissed as usual but doesn't even make the first bend and plants his old Scorpio nose down in the ditch. Sober enough at least to realise his predicament, Dave legs the last half mile home over the fields and then downs half a bottle of Grouse he's kept hidden in the wood shed. Passing plod, meanwhile, recognising Dave's car, first arranges for Mendem Motors (real name!) to drag it out and then, about an hour after the event, knocks on Dave's door. Questions, blood tests, timetables etc etc. then charges Dave. When the case came to court, Police Medico type presents all the figures to show that Dave was well oiled even before the half bottle that he pleaded in his defence. Banned for 3 years and £850. You will have figured out this was not Dave's first offence. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[No Regrets]

The problem is, however, if somebody in a rental boat stuffs it into you, and through no fault of your own, you are breathalysed.... /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

...or some similar scenario....

Personally, I like to punt along at walking speed with a glass or two having rolled down my neck, but it seems nothing is beyond our festering governments reach.

 

[DWT]

I spoke with a colleague the other day who is a rower. She did say she always worried about the hire boats bearing down on her and about how in control the skipper is at the best of times. Throw in a bucket load of alcohol and I can start to see there might be a problem. However I would have thought that any really dangerous or antisocial behaviour could easily be dealt with under other byelaws.

What I found amazing about the MBM article was the apparent admission that there is actually no suggestion that drink boating is a particular problem. "Let's bring in the legislation and then we'll see if this shows there was a problem" seems to be the approach. Now I think I am a reasonable man and not prone to rants about the government making up new laws just for something to do, but this seems plain daft.

 

[chuckaduck]

At the moment you can be convicted for being drunk in charge of your vessel

so why bring in another law ?

my understanding is that the Pla and the Ea will enforce this only if someone is acting like a complete pratt or causes a serious accident much the same as the speed limits not so much on the non tidal but on the tidal stretches a lot of mobos do exeed the speed limit but not in an irresponsible manner some newbies though are reckless and stupid

this was earlier this year they came up to kew on the plane and did not slow for pontoons etc turned by the bridge and back down still on the plane !

Also I find that having a drink is a part of the sociable life enjoyed by most people on the river and if you look at their socio economonic groups they are of a certain age and type which do not come within a high risk group for being drunkards who cause harm

ok the river has its dangers and exessive drink can lead to death but this is mostly from land based people here last year 2 fatalities one on new years eve from a local pub ie land based ( drink related ) one from land based thieves ( non drink related but could be drug related )

ok drink and water are a dangerous combination and nanny britain have a good argument for increasing legislation but as someone pointed out is how to enforce it ?

and why enforce it ?

Personally I do confess I do indulge whilst when out but never to the extent where it impairs my ability

 

[pheran]

Its noticeable how quickly this Government will produce the 'there's no evidence we need to do anything' defence when faced with demands that don't suit its purposes eg the West Lothian Question. Duplicitous as usual.

 

[cheena11]

I have been reading about this in the latest issue of MBM. How on earth are they going to police it, particularly on the river? One of the pleasures of boating is being able to cruise along with a couple of glasses of something and for many of us this is what a day on the river is all about
Driving while intoxicated classes in texas

I am not suggesting we should all be able to take our boats out while we are completely tanked up, I am quite capable of making a mess of a lock or mooring whilst sober so do not want to make it even more difficult, but I really do not want to have to start counting units.

Is drink boating really a problem?

Hi
Drunk driving is a well known problem in the United States. The dangers of getting in a car and driving while intoxicated are very real and very serious. Those same dangers apply to driving other types of vehicles while intoxicated, including boats.
The Problem of Drunk Boating

According to the United States Coast Guard, alcohol is the leading factor in fatal recreational boating accidents in the United States. In 2007 alone, drunk boating caused 391 known recreational boating accidents, 145 known deaths and 341 known injuries.

The problem is not limited to that of recreational boaters. Professional captains and crews may also engage in alcohol or drug use that poses a significant risk to public safety. All of the risks of driving a car while under the influence of alcohol or drugs are present when a boat is operated under the influence of alcohol or drugs. However, boats are less stable and more difficult to maneuver then many of the vehicles on our roadways. Further, there is a significant risk of drowning which is not present on the roads. These factors make drunk boating particularly dangerous.

 

[The Glassman]

Re: Drink-driving on the river

Hi... we’ve boated on the Thames since ’95 and have always observed a very simple rule.... no alcohol for Skipper and First Officer (aka self and SWMBO) until the boat is moored for the night. After that it can be a different story!
As many of my boating pals have observed over the years - I’m bad enough at helming without adding to the problems.
Seriously though, our boat goes 8 tonnes and that can do some serious damage. I couldn’t live with the thought that I may have caused avoidable harm had I not had a drink (or two).
Passengers/guests on board are free to imbibe - as long as they don’t plan to assist in any manoeuvres.
A simple rule that has worked well for us over the years.
The biggest drink-related incidents we see are almost exclusively with hired boats (especially the hired narrow boats) involved in ‘Stag’, ‘Hen’ or just ‘Party’ outings. These guys & gals seem to believe that they have to be drinking when involved in boating.
Frankly, they are a bl***y menace to all other river-users. We’ve seen countless examples of them hiring a boat ‘normally’ and arriving at the next mooring or lock whereupon they load the boat with extra passengers - and loads of booze.

I know - and am perfectly happy with, many superb Skippers who will have a glass or two during their day cruising and are still better than most other river users. Our choice is our own and I’d never preach to others.
As to ‘policing’ this issue - forget it. Only when an inquest is needed will the authorities ever get involved.
All this IMHO of course.

 

[oldgit]

Defending the Indefencable.?

Also I find that having a drink is a part of the sociable life enjoyed by most people on the river and if you look at their socio economonic groups they are of a certain age and type which do not come within a high risk group

The arguments being presented against this new move may or may not have been similar to those wheeled out against Seat Belts,Crash helmets,70 MPH speed limits and Mrs Castles 1966 outrageous Act on peoples civil liberties.

Not sure the age group you mention is quite so safe as you think.
According to Gov statisics a driver aged around 25 will drive 115 miles before having an accident due to alcohol,a driver aged over 60 will drive 6 miles.
Why should boating be any different regards alcohol than driving a car/train/bus/lorry or flying a light aircraft.
Just asking.

 

[sailorman]

I have been reading about this in the latest issue of MBM. How on earth are they going to police it, particularly on the river? One of the pleasures of boating is being able to cruise along with a couple of glasses of something and for many of us this is what a day on the river is all about

I am not suggesting we should all be able to take our boats out while we are completely tanked up, I am quite capable of making a mess of a lock or mooring whilst sober so do not want to make it even more difficult, but I really do not want to have to start counting units.

Is drink boating really a problem?

Blame the driver of "The Bow Belle" & Prescott who changed the law

 

[oldgit]

Blame the driver of "The Bow Belle" & Prescott who changed the law

For those of us who worked on the water,the tales of the drinking culture that used to exist on commercial craft plying the Thames and Medway was common knowledge.
Unfortunately the matter was largely ignored due to what was acceptable at the time.
Seem to remember a barge becoming embedded in Southend Pier due to the skipper being a bit the worse for wear.

 

[DWT]

I was surprised to see a post from me on this subject as I rarely post these days. I then spotted that this story is nearly ten years old. Is there any reason why it has been resurrected now?

 

[oldgit]

At the risk of waking B1 from his slumbers in Riley Towers,this forum tends to go into hibernation during the Thames Closed season from Sept 1st to late June and any sign of life is to be welcomed.