Drink Drive Boating
- Thread starter boatone
- Start date
fireball
New member
But there are already laws ... this is just increasing them ...
fireball
New member
and anyway - there are laws about drink driving on the road - but does that have much effect? No? Really? Why not? Because those that are sensible don't anyway ... whilst those that are not so sensible don't give a toss about the law when it doesn't suit them....
hlb
RIP
Just shows the stupidity of the new law, for over 7 metres.
All the accidents seem to be with small sports boat, who will not be covered.
All the accidents seem to be with small sports boat, who will not be covered.
Kawasaki
Well-known member
Hope the Pillocks get there just reward some day.
Bad news like that is all We need.
Thank God nobody got killed and no others were involved.
No lifejackets etc!
Crazy!
Like You say-- Doesn't help the case for no regulation.
Actually, makes Me begin to think there should be some.
(Just read others replies, didn't realise there were any Rules)
I like a Bevvy as much as the next Man but Cripes not whislt in "Command"
Cold shower now.
Just realised I,ve made a serious Post!!
Bad news like that is all We need.
Thank God nobody got killed and no others were involved.
No lifejackets etc!
Crazy!
Like You say-- Doesn't help the case for no regulation.
Actually, makes Me begin to think there should be some.
(Just read others replies, didn't realise there were any Rules)
I like a Bevvy as much as the next Man but Cripes not whislt in "Command"
Cold shower now.
Just realised I,ve made a serious Post!!
boatone
Well-known member
The proposals cover ANY boat capable of more than 7 knots.
I am not commenting on whether we need these new laws or not. Just that this incident will add weight to the vociferous clamouring legislative nightmare that is becoming modern life.
I am not commenting on whether we need these new laws or not. Just that this incident will add weight to the vociferous clamouring legislative nightmare that is becoming modern life.
Wiggo
New member
Surely they could have been detained for breach of some local by-law or other? Stupid sods.
scubaman
Well-known member
At a risk of being very unpopular I can't help commenting. Also, as I'm not UK resident and not doing boating in the uk, it's not really my concern, but here it goes:
In my area drinking and boating has been banned for years and I think it is a good thing. Surely it doesn't eliminate the problem but it certainly makes some people think before taking helm while under influence.
This develops the attitudes to right direction. I believe this has diminshed the number of accidents significantly. And I'm not only talking about accidents involving fatalities, but also smaller accidents like minor injuries, damage to boats, near misses, etc. thus making boating environment safer for all.
You still get your reckless types whom you can't change what ever you do. But as for the phrase 'any responsible skipper wouldn't do that anyway', I can only say that then it shouldn't be a problem for them anyway. I'm sure the same was said before drinking was banned on the roads. Imagine what would happen if that law was reversed.
I do agree that making any exceptions is a bit silly. Here, regardless of boat size or speed, if you have an engine, the law concerns you. A former local MP made headlines after helming his row boat with a 2hp outboard, while under influence.
Another thing is that the limits on the roads are more strict than on the water, giving you allowance for some wine and a beer.
In short: IMHO limits are good, exceptions bad.
In my area drinking and boating has been banned for years and I think it is a good thing. Surely it doesn't eliminate the problem but it certainly makes some people think before taking helm while under influence.
This develops the attitudes to right direction. I believe this has diminshed the number of accidents significantly. And I'm not only talking about accidents involving fatalities, but also smaller accidents like minor injuries, damage to boats, near misses, etc. thus making boating environment safer for all.
You still get your reckless types whom you can't change what ever you do. But as for the phrase 'any responsible skipper wouldn't do that anyway', I can only say that then it shouldn't be a problem for them anyway. I'm sure the same was said before drinking was banned on the roads. Imagine what would happen if that law was reversed.
I do agree that making any exceptions is a bit silly. Here, regardless of boat size or speed, if you have an engine, the law concerns you. A former local MP made headlines after helming his row boat with a 2hp outboard, while under influence.
Another thing is that the limits on the roads are more strict than on the water, giving you allowance for some wine and a beer.
In short: IMHO limits are good, exceptions bad.
fireball
New member
[ QUOTE ]
In my area drinking and boating has been banned for years and I think it is a good thing.
[/ QUOTE ]
In this country it isn't illegal to hold onto the live wire from the mains electric ... but it generally isn't a good idea to do so. But as it is a dangerous thing and quite a number of ppl die from electrical shocks perhaps we should make it law ... make sense? No? Why not? Because the majority of ppl know if they are going to do something dangerous and therefore don't. IMO this is a law for the thick who are generally too stupid to know the law exists and too much of an arse to obey the ones they know.
Introducing a law because of one or two isolated incidents is complete nonsense.
In my area drinking and boating has been banned for years and I think it is a good thing.
[/ QUOTE ]
In this country it isn't illegal to hold onto the live wire from the mains electric ... but it generally isn't a good idea to do so. But as it is a dangerous thing and quite a number of ppl die from electrical shocks perhaps we should make it law ... make sense? No? Why not? Because the majority of ppl know if they are going to do something dangerous and therefore don't. IMO this is a law for the thick who are generally too stupid to know the law exists and too much of an arse to obey the ones they know.
Introducing a law because of one or two isolated incidents is complete nonsense.
Local
New member
[ QUOTE ]
In this country it isn't illegal to hold onto the live wire from the mains electric ... but it generally isn't a good idea to do so. But as it is a dangerous thing and quite a number of ppl die from electrical shocks perhaps we should make it law ... make sense? No? Why not? Because the majority of ppl know if they are going to do something dangerous and therefore don't. IMO this is a law for the thick who are generally too stupid to know the law exists and too much of an arse to obey the ones they know.
[/ QUOTE ]
The glaring weakness in your argument is that a live electric wire, when touched, does not cloud ones judgement as to whether doing so is safe or not. All sensible people know drink-driving is stupid, but the act of drinking alcohol impairs their judgement to the point where many then change their minds and think they are perfectly safe to do so. That is why it is illegal in cars.
Many people stopped for drink-driving cannot believe they actually did it the next morning and would never dream of drink-driving when sober, but after a few bevvies. . . . .
In this country it isn't illegal to hold onto the live wire from the mains electric ... but it generally isn't a good idea to do so. But as it is a dangerous thing and quite a number of ppl die from electrical shocks perhaps we should make it law ... make sense? No? Why not? Because the majority of ppl know if they are going to do something dangerous and therefore don't. IMO this is a law for the thick who are generally too stupid to know the law exists and too much of an arse to obey the ones they know.
[/ QUOTE ]
The glaring weakness in your argument is that a live electric wire, when touched, does not cloud ones judgement as to whether doing so is safe or not. All sensible people know drink-driving is stupid, but the act of drinking alcohol impairs their judgement to the point where many then change their minds and think they are perfectly safe to do so. That is why it is illegal in cars.
Many people stopped for drink-driving cannot believe they actually did it the next morning and would never dream of drink-driving when sober, but after a few bevvies. . . . .
Strake
Member
I think the Solent coastguard summed it up perfectly:
"It's illegal on a commercial vessel to drink but that law hasn't stretched to the leisure trade yet. But they are going to change it.
"Any sane person would want that law changed."
"It's illegal on a commercial vessel to drink but that law hasn't stretched to the leisure trade yet. But they are going to change it.
"Any sane person would want that law changed."
Andrew_Fanner
New member
>>>
The glaring weakness in your argument is that a live electric wire, when touched, does not cloud ones judgement as to whether doing so is safe or not. All sensible people know drink-driving is stupid, but the act of drinking alcohol impairs their judgement to the point where many then change their minds and think they are perfectly safe to do so. That is why it is illegal in cars.
>>>
By the smae token the galring weakenss here is that grasping the live wire, under the influence, could sound like a big and clever plan to impress the impressionable...
The laws have always been there. This regime ssmes keen to enforce something on a group that it openly sees as rich...
The glaring weakness in your argument is that a live electric wire, when touched, does not cloud ones judgement as to whether doing so is safe or not. All sensible people know drink-driving is stupid, but the act of drinking alcohol impairs their judgement to the point where many then change their minds and think they are perfectly safe to do so. That is why it is illegal in cars.
>>>
By the smae token the galring weakenss here is that grasping the live wire, under the influence, could sound like a big and clever plan to impress the impressionable...
The laws have always been there. This regime ssmes keen to enforce something on a group that it openly sees as rich...
Bav34
...
What about 'morning after' drunkeness? I had a colleague at work who had a skinful the night before, had a taxi home as he felt he was being responsible but got stopped on the way to work. It was a random test, no sign of bad driving. He was arrested!! Luckily subsequent tests cleared him.
My point is that how many sailors in Cowes week would pass a breathaliser the next morning?
Based on what I've seen (done 3 Cowes week) most were lucky to get back to the correct boat after a night in the beer tent! (I obviously don't include myself in that /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif)
My point is that how many sailors in Cowes week would pass a breathaliser the next morning?
Based on what I've seen (done 3 Cowes week) most were lucky to get back to the correct boat after a night in the beer tent! (I obviously don't include myself in that /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif)
rickp
Active member
[ QUOTE ]
My point is that how many sailors in Cowes week would pass a breathaliser the next morning?
Based on what I've seen (done 3 Cowes week) most were lucky to get back to the correct boat after a night in the beer tent! (I obviously don't include myself in that /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif)
[/ QUOTE ]
Indeed - and the crew could definitely be counted as "involved in the navigation" as they're needed to tack the boat, or drop the sails, etc.
As someone once said, "Be careful what you wish for...."
Rick
My point is that how many sailors in Cowes week would pass a breathaliser the next morning?
Based on what I've seen (done 3 Cowes week) most were lucky to get back to the correct boat after a night in the beer tent! (I obviously don't include myself in that /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif)
[/ QUOTE ]
Indeed - and the crew could definitely be counted as "involved in the navigation" as they're needed to tack the boat, or drop the sails, etc.
As someone once said, "Be careful what you wish for...."
Rick
scubaman
Well-known member
Drinking and driving a car isn't a very good idea either but still a law was needed and I'm sure there were less accidents after that. Why? Because roughly you got three types of people (or boaters to be more specific):
1. responsible ones who have good judgement and never drive a boat while drunk
2. carefree ones, otherwise law abinding citizens who mean no harm, but whose judgement sometimes gets clouded after some sun & sangria and stupid accidents follow
3. thick ones
IMO sense of responsibility of the type 2 ppl has been heightened by a law in here. I think that this has also reduced the number of all types of accidents, not just those few had by the 'thick ones'.
A rough over-simplification, I know, but try to see my point.
1. responsible ones who have good judgement and never drive a boat while drunk
2. carefree ones, otherwise law abinding citizens who mean no harm, but whose judgement sometimes gets clouded after some sun & sangria and stupid accidents follow
3. thick ones
IMO sense of responsibility of the type 2 ppl has been heightened by a law in here. I think that this has also reduced the number of all types of accidents, not just those few had by the 'thick ones'.
A rough over-simplification, I know, but try to see my point.
ari
Well-known member
If you're going for a catch all argument, why not ban boating? That'd catch all groups, drunk or sober, and would have a 100% success rate as would be easy to police. See someone boating, arrest them. Easy.
Problem solved, no more collisions, deaths or injuries.
Then we can move on to motorcycling, climbing, flying, going to the library, knitting, stairs, eating, drinking, well everything really.
In no time we will have an entirely safe society. Utopia.
Problem solved, no more collisions, deaths or injuries.
Then we can move on to motorcycling, climbing, flying, going to the library, knitting, stairs, eating, drinking, well everything really.
In no time we will have an entirely safe society. Utopia.
Bav34
...
Don't most accidents happen at home??? /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
The fact that we're making such a fuss about this one incident demonstrates that this kind of incident is thankfully very rare. As regular readers of Tim Bartlett's column in MBY will know, statistically boating fatalities directly attributable to drink are minimal compared to other types of boating accidents and there just is'nt a widespread drink boating problem anywhere near the scale of drink driving road deaths, certainly not enough to warrant the stupid new laws the govt is proposing
In any case, no law stops the idiots and by the sound of it, these people were idiots, from doing something stupid
In any case, no law stops the idiots and by the sound of it, these people were idiots, from doing something stupid
Local
New member
[ QUOTE ]
By the smae token the galring weakenss here is that grasping the live wire, under the influence, could sound like a big and clever plan to impress the impressionable...
[/ QUOTE ]
Indeed, but a drunk grasping a live wire will only hurt him or herself and I doubt will do it every weekend, a drunken boater may harm far more people and it is those people who need protection. You simply cannot let people self-regulate when it comes to alcohol and boats. I live in Cowes and every week I see boaters who would not dream of drink-driving in a car boating with their whole families on board seemingly unaware how a couple of glasses of wine and a bottle of beer at lunch has completely destroyed their safety perception. We get enough idiots here with no killcord, no lifejackets, no VHF and no idea. Removing excess alcohol from the scenario can only help IMHO.
Perhaps a chartplotter should also be made mandatory judging by the number of people I see turn up here in 18' bowriders navigating with a Little Chef Road Atlas! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
By the smae token the galring weakenss here is that grasping the live wire, under the influence, could sound like a big and clever plan to impress the impressionable...
[/ QUOTE ]
Indeed, but a drunk grasping a live wire will only hurt him or herself and I doubt will do it every weekend, a drunken boater may harm far more people and it is those people who need protection. You simply cannot let people self-regulate when it comes to alcohol and boats. I live in Cowes and every week I see boaters who would not dream of drink-driving in a car boating with their whole families on board seemingly unaware how a couple of glasses of wine and a bottle of beer at lunch has completely destroyed their safety perception. We get enough idiots here with no killcord, no lifejackets, no VHF and no idea. Removing excess alcohol from the scenario can only help IMHO.
Perhaps a chartplotter should also be made mandatory judging by the number of people I see turn up here in 18' bowriders navigating with a Little Chef Road Atlas! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
scubaman
Well-known member
Also, crabbing wires you are only likely to harm yourself. That's why it's illegal to do your wiring at home without qualification, you could put other people at risk by buring down the whole block.
Harming yourself is not illegal yet, but endangering others by plain stupidness is becoming increadingly so.
Ari, if I turn your point the other way around: what we then need laws against drinking and driving for, or one that requires you to fill certain requirements to drive a motorcycle or any other law alltogether.
Harming yourself is not illegal yet, but endangering others by plain stupidness is becoming increadingly so.
Ari, if I turn your point the other way around: what we then need laws against drinking and driving for, or one that requires you to fill certain requirements to drive a motorcycle or any other law alltogether.
