Downhaul/Foreguy

[chappy]

I have been reading some books on spinnaker sailing & i am just stuck on one thing. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gifsome books say tighten the downhaul on the pole before you square it away & set it to stop the pole from rising up when the spinnaker fills,while other books say leave the downhaul slack then tighten up once you have squared it of & set it.
The system i have on my yacht is i have a block at the base of the mast where the downhaul goes through then onto the centre of the pole, but i do know there are systems where the downhaul goes through the end of the pole then down onto a block on the bow, so the question is why do some books say to you tighten the downhaul before you square it of & some say leave it slack untill after you have squared it of.
I would be most greatfull if someone can explain this to me /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
regards
Dave.

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Don't know..... but for sure it needs to be tight before the kite fills...... a skying pole will cause you no end of grief.... usually ending up in the kite wrapped around the forestay..... and that isn't funny......

Can't think why you would want to leave it slack before hoisting........ better to set it, and then adjust when the kite has filled IMHO.....

Perhaps with a smaller kite you could get away with squaring the pole, and pulling the guy tight to keep the pole under control (especially if you are using barbour haulers - but unlikely on a small kite?)..... but with a big kite, it would be asking for trouble if you asked me.....

 

[Gin]

Your Pole lift, downhaul and sheet/guy must all come back to the cockpit.

Any change in sheeting/guy will usually need an adjustment to the downhaul (and consequently often the pole lift too). You can't do this efficiently by going forward.

I have been knocked down to the crosstrees by a crewmember mistakenly letting go of the downhaul before the spinnaker was struck in a rising wind.

I promise you- you really don't want (much)slack in the downhaul; if its too tight you can ease it but if you've lost it you may not be able to haul it down again.

 

[michael_w]

I'd change the attachment point on the pole PDQ; otherwise you'll break it. If you end-for-end gybe use wire or spectra bridles. If you dip pole gybe, just attach the foreguy to the end fitting.

 

[bbg]

On small keelboats (maybe less than 24') an attachment to the center of the pole is possible, but a bridle is always better.

If the block for the downhaul is at the base of the mast, there is no reason not to pre-set it - once set it should not need to be changed, even when trimming the pole.

In the other set-up (with block on the foredeck) you should also pre-set it - maybe a little bit shorter if you are going to hoist on a reach, or longer if you are going to hoist on a run.

You can mark the tail end of the downhaul to your pre-set mark, so you always know where to make it off.

When you pre-set the downhaul there might be (will probably be) some slack in it - to allow the pole to be trimmed aft during the hoist. What you absolutely must NOT do is leave the downhaul free to run. That results in the pole skying, and really good photo opportunities for those around you.

 

[boguing]

As already written, downhaul and uphaul should both go to bridles if you want to 'end for end' gybe. If 'dip poling' then both can go to the outer end instead.

Beauty of the downhaul going to the mast base is that you don't need to adjust it when bringing the pole backwards or forwards. Another plus is that your genoa sheets will always be clear to allow you to rehoist on the opposite gybe from when you dropped it.

Benefit of the downhaul block on the foredeck is that it allows you to put tension against the guy, thus stopping the pole from drifting backwards, as it can with the block at the mast foot. Downside is that the genoa can become pinned to one side, fit a snaphook block though, and you can unhook it, kick the genoa across and reattach.

Personally I'd go for bridles and a foredeck block, which allows me the best of both worlds. Can end for end and dip pole according to conditions.

As for a slack downhaul, never. Once the pole has 'skyed' it's a b*gger to get it back down.

 

[chappy]

Thanks for all your help on this, it has cleared alot of confusion.
regards
Dave.

 

[William_H]

The bridle is desirable because it brings the load out to the ends of the pole and reduces the tendency to snap the pole. You usually have 2 bridles one for topping lift one for down haul so the pole is kept symetrical. (either way up)

Yes it is essential to restrain the pole from skying. It will destroy the pole fitting at the mast (snotter) if it rolls to one side. (I have destroyed many)

As for you question about putting tension on the down haul before filling the sail I don't think it matters much provided the pole is restrained form lifting. When sailing square the pole is pulled low to tension the luff and curl the luff in to hold the wind in a cup shape. When reaching the pole is allowed to rise a little to ease the tension on the luff to give a straighter flatter entry to minimise the tendency to luff the sail (ie turn inside out).

I found on my 21fter that down haul at the mast base(back to the cockpit) just didn't give enough power. I needed a tackle to the mid point even on a bridle and that wasn't satisfactory. What I settled on was 2 downhauls from points on the gunwhale about 1 metre back from the bow. ie directly below the pole when midway between square (back) and on the forestay. These down hauls go to the pole end. One advantage is that I have a knot in the rope for each downhaul which stops the pole skying even if released in the cockpit. Another is that when reaching it provides some power to pull the pole off the forestay as at that stage the angle of pull of the brace is poor.
You can use a whisker pole here to hold brace outward but I don't.
The disadvantage is that the down haul must be changed over when gybing although the new one can be attached before gybe and the old removed after. Being midway it doesn't need too much adjustment between reach and run.
It provides great power and control especially when shy in a strong winds. Summer racing is always around 20 knots with lots of shy legs. A smaller flat spin helps here.

Persevere with spin and try different things. They really are the invention of the devil but that doesn't mean give up on spin olewill

 

[chappy]

Thanks William-H
Some very usefull tips, i shall just have to try differant ways till i get a system that works for me.
regards
Dave.