Don't mention the Compulsory Licensing!

[Inselaffe]

Don\'t mention the Compulsory Licensing!

I'm living in Germany for 1 1/2 yrs now, and have to register my 'new' (1981) Etap 22 (registered in Germany by previous owner) and then take the 'Sportbootfuhrerschein See' (Sportsboat driving license for the Sea) before I can sail it up on the North Sea (from the Jade river). Both license and registration are compulsory here.

Although my first 'big boat' I have sailed dinghies for nearly 30 years, and hopefully with a bit of study wouldn't have to many problems with the content, my big problem is that I have to do it all in German!

After just over a year learning my German is good enough to think I'm speaking well after a few jars in the pub, but to answer Q's about coll regs (with Extra german bits), basic navigation and even to relearn all the nautical names for everything is a different matter.

So I thought why not go back to England and take my ICC?

But in here comes the great German Beraucratic Machine. They say that I can only use the ICC for up to 1 yr, and if I live in Germany, then I can't even do this - I must take the German test directly.

This gets me a little bit annoyed, they have you over a barrel, the official tester told me I can't even use a English / German dictionary! Of course the test costs, and you have to hire a boat to do it (the tester could give me a list of suitable schools!) or pay the tester expenses to travel to you.

Although I know I need to learn the stuff in the test for safetys sake and will ensure that I do the courses, all of this is starting to seem a bit 'grease my palm' to me!

So, my questions are:

1/ Does anyone have any ideas how I can get around this and do a course in English. Could I register the boat in the UK or something?

2/ Is there anyone out there with experience of sailing, beraucracy and living in Germany (especially on North Sea)?

Much obliged

Leigh


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[graham]

Re: Don\'t mention the Compulsory Licensing!

Orders are orders you strange Island Monkey.

Hopefully people will take note and try to stop the slide down the slippery slope that will bring the UK to the same sad state.

I spent about 6 years in Germany but about 20 years ago so cant help with bureacracy etc but my experience was that if you try to speak german then most Germans will do their best to help you get by.Make yourself a vocabulary of nautical terms and give it a go.

Strange how a few Bier + Apfelcorns make you a better linguist AND more attractive .Best of Luck with the test.

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[Inselaffe]

Re: Don\'t mention the Compulsory Licensing!

Absolutely agree with you Graham, the Germans have a lot of patience and help when you want to learn their language (much more than us brits). I have done my time in the classroom (450 hrs last yr) and am doing ok (if I do say so myself!), and am definately not arrogant enough to think everyone should speak English! I've spent the last month translating the 150 page text book to the course, which would have taken me three or four days to read in English!

But I just don't like the inflexibility of the beraucratic institution (I think the last straw was not being allowed to use a dictionary, it almost seems like they want as many people to have to retake the test as possible...). My cynical attitude to the 'captive market' is absolutely shared by all my German friends, but what can you do? I really hope the UK doesn't go down this route...

Sorry, just letting off steam!

My plan was to take the ICC in English and then after a year or so of practical experience and more exposure to the language to take the German test.

Did you get to do much sailing in Gemany?

Leigh



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[Ric]

Re: Don\'t mention the Compulsory Licensing!

I suggest you just get a big book of nautical vocabulary and learn it. I passed my Bodenseeschein in German after learning German for only three months. A lot of the questions were pictures. Also, it was possible to buy a book of past exam papers and I studied that. As others have noted, Germans are inordinately pleased when foreigners make an attempt to learn their baffling language and so time spent studying is very rewarding I found.

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[Ric]

Re: Don\'t mention the Compulsory Licensing!

I suggest you just get a big book of nautical vocabulary and learn it. I passed my Bodenseeschein in German after learning German for only three months. A lot of the questions were pictures. Also, it was possible to buy a book of past exam papers and I studied that. As others have noted, Germans are inordinately pleased when foreigners make an attempt to learn their baffling language and so time spent studying is very rewarding I found.

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[Waypoint]

Re: Don\'t mention the Compulsory Licensing!

I think you are exagerating the problem somewhat. It seems reasonable that if you live in Germany you are required to complete local exams. As with a driving licence, if a German were to live in the UK, a UK driving licence would have to be applied for within a given period of time.
As for the test, the exam is based on a multiple choice questionaire and it is only neccessary to cross off the correct answer. All possible exam sheets are available for purchase, so you can practice for as long as you like in advance.
You may question the need for a test at all, but given time, I think you will find a minimum level of certification will also be called for in the UK.
I wish you the best of luck and happy sailing.

SY Waypoint

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[Roberto]

Re: Don\'t mention the Compulsory Licensing!

I think you should radiate your boat form the German registry and register her in the uk, then only Uk legislation would apply and you could skip the German test

a lot of people in Spain or Italy sail French or Belgian (UK more difficult to get) registered boats in order not to bother with licensing..



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[Trevethan]

Re: Don\'t mention the Compulsory Licensing!

The difference is the German driver living here doesn't have to re-take the test -- the licence issued in Germany is proof enough of his/her ability and a UK licence is granted automatically -- if we extend this to this situation then an ICC passed in the UK would automatically entitle Leigh to the German certification -- this isn't the case though

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[Inselaffe]

Re: Don\'t mention the Compulsory Licensing!

Well, it seems there are no alternatives so I guess I'll just have to bite the bullet then! But not without a final whinge!

-I agree totally with the idea of learning the content of the test, just not that in the end if I pass or not is due only to my ability in German. I will also know that when I pass the test I will only just be starting to learn...

-I fully agree with learning German if I live in Germany, and am doing so (I learnt Portuguese whilst living in Portugal).

-The test is definately not multiple choice - I have the 20 possible exam papers. The answers are in some cases quite complex in terms of language (especially for a scientist like me with no natural talent whatsoever for languages!)

-A German or any other EU resident may exchange his or her driving licence for the UK one after a year or so, they don't have to take a test in English.

-I'm not a xenophobe (ask my 'on-board Frau' as they say in the old copies of the german mag 'Yacht'!), just a hater of self perpetuating bureaucracy. I guess it's just culture shock moving from Portugal where they are so relaxed they dare not fart, to Germany where they dare not fart if they don't have the correct license! Ah! but that's what makes Europe so interesting, and so different from the USA....

So, if there's no other way, then I'll stop moaning and get on with it.....

Ordnung muss sein!

Thanks for the help

Leigh

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[graham]

Re: Don\'t mention the Compulsory Licensing!

Only managed to do some dinghy sailing on Mohnesee Dummersee and a few other lakes I cant recall the names of.

Best of Luck with the test let us know how you get on.

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[mnm]

Re: Don\'t mention the Compulsory Licensing!

Look into registering the boat in Poland (not as dangerous as it seems-stealing a foreign car in Poland now carries a 3 year jail term). Advantages to be had I believe.

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[CPN]

Re: Don\'t mention the Compulsory Licensing!

You could certainly get around doing the German test, if you register the boat in the UK, but you will still need the ICC. This means doing the Day Skipper theory and practical - so doing the German test might be simpler
Living here in Switzerland, the bureacracy is very similar to the German. I have my boat in Italy but with British registry. I did this to avoid the bureacracy that is involved in maintaining Swiss registration - they inspect the boat every two years to ensure that all the safety equipment they think you need, is on board - so check that with the German authorities too - it can get very expensive keeping the clowns satisfied

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[Inselaffe]

Re: Don\'t mention the Compulsory Licensing!

I passed it! Sorry, after all the sweat, blood and tears it took to learn it all in German I can't resist saying that I got 65/66 points! That shows that the content was very easy.

And I am now more than ever convinced of the complete and utter waste of time/money/effort of such compulsory tests...

Advice from my experience:

-insist on a dictionary, they will let you take one in,
-practical part is very easy, the guy before me started by backing into another boat, but still passed.
-Unless you have studied German a lot / are a natural at languages (unlike me)insist on an oral test in English, they might not want to but they have to. The language needed is much more complicated than simple conversational German, there are 362 questions to learn & although the questions and answers are straightforward in terms of content they are worded in typical bearaucratic-speak that sometimes left my German friends baffled. It is not just a simple matter of learning the nautical vocab or simple pictorial questions as suggested by some posts here.
-As ever, the people responsible are mostly helpful and friendly even if the system is not, loosing your patience won't help!


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