Don't buy this plotter/DSC VHF on ebay - it's not legal in UK

[Heckler]

Re: Don\'t buy this plotter/DSC VHF on ebay - it\'s not legal in UK

Old wives tales, dear boy, tales, not tails. Tails is what animals have to wave around etc, tales are stories.
Tell me, this fixation (imho) you have with qualifications and titles, what is that all about? /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Stu

 

[pvb]

Re: Don\'t buy this plotter/DSC VHF on ebay - it\'s not legal in UK

[ QUOTE ]
Under EU law and the Wireless Telegraphy act all radio's that transmit MUST comply with the law.

The CPV-350 does not. It is approved for use on US vessel not on an EU

This law has not bearing on where the boat is but its flag of origin.
The only time this is an issue is with the lower DSC class of SC101 as used in the US, this can only be used on vessels that stay in US water once they leave they must fit a class D unit.

[/ QUOTE ]According to your employer's website, the CPV350 is a Class D DSC VHF.

[ QUOTE ]
PVB I wish it was as simple as that that we are in some price fixing, sadly not.

[/ QUOTE ]I'm intrigued. Why do you think that Standard Horizon products which are essentially identical should be <u>twice</u> the price in the UK as in the US?

 

[JonBrooks]

Re: Don\'t buy this plotter/DSC VHF on ebay - it\'s not legal in UK

PVB,

We have done this dance many times now over the years.

I never said the CPV-350 was not class D, I said it was not approved for UK/EU use.
We make a few class D sets only for the US market as do Icom and all the others.

The approval route and needs are very different and the CE marking is not, as you know required over there.
This all adds to the price of construction, in some part making US only products much less to buy.

We and the other companies don't make the rule we just have to builds units to meet them.

I have also never said over the years that I agree with the way it works.

Cheers.

 

[pvb]

Re: Don\'t buy this plotter/DSC VHF on ebay - it\'s not legal in UK

[ QUOTE ]
The approval route and needs are very different and the CE marking is not, as you know required over there.
This all adds to the price of construction, in some part making US only products much less to buy.

We and the other companies don't make the rule we just have to builds units to meet them.

[/ QUOTE ]Well, Jon, I'm afraid that's a rather weak argument. As far as the buyer is concerned, the GX1500S (the US version) looks pretty well identical in spec and performance to the GX1500E (the European version). There's no way the European version can cost <u>twice</u> as much to make!

As for type approval, this is a process initiated by the manufacturer, not the authorities. So it would have been possible in theory for Standard Horizon to request type approval to sell the GX1500S in Europe. Instead, a "European" version was invented, to be sold at twice the price.

You're fond of suggesting that the US uses the inferior SC-101 standard of DSC, and you say that "We make a few class D sets only for the US market", but according to your US website, no fewer than 6 of the 8 fixed VHF products SH offers in the US are full Class D sets.

It's regrettable that we in the UK are not only being denied the benefits of some of the latest products, but that we have to pay twice the price for European-badged versions of existing products.

 

[Bilgediver]

Re: Don\'t buy this plotter/DSC VHF on ebay - it\'s not legal in UK

'Fraid not. The US channels 24 to 28 are duplex, just like the International channels. The CPV350 has full International, US and Canadian channels. When set to US channels, 67 is low-power. When set to International channels, 67 is normal power.

***************************************************

In which case my second paragraph applies.... /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[MoodySabre]

Re: Don\'t buy this plotter/DSC VHF on ebay - it\'s not legal in UK

Ok which of you criminals has started bidding on it - now £112 /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[Bilgediver]

Re: Don\'t buy this plotter/DSC VHF on ebay - it\'s not legal in UK

Quote:
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Quote:
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Ch 80, being duplex, is impractical for the Hbr Launch.


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Oh dear, there's a lot of confusion here! There's no earthly reason why the harbour launch shouldn't have a handheld with channel 80 set up as the shore station - loads of marinas do this and issue handhelds to their staff.


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And how does the shore station contact the launch ?**********************************************

He was being a bit pedantic in a simplistic way.......What can be done is that the handhelds are programmed with Channel 80 plus channel 80 R ... Channel 80R is as shore base reversed duplex and channel 80 is normal ship. This allows the marina workers to talk to the boats on 80 and to the office on 80R... Just don t tell Ofcom /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[RestlessL]

Re: Don\'t buy this plotter/DSC VHF on ebay - it\'s not legal in UK

[ QUOTE ]
What can be done is that the handhelds are programmed with Channel 80 plus channel 80 R ... Channel 80R is as shore base reversed duplex and channel 80 is normal ship.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, it can be done this way, and I am sure a number of marinas do so.

However others (I quoted Bembridge, a trawl though Reeds will show plenty more) choose to use Ch M.

The point I am trying to get over is that a non-UK sourced set will not have Ch M. This may not matter to you, but is a factor you should take into account when making your decision.

 

[bendyone]

Re: Don\'t buy this plotter/DSC VHF on ebay - it\'s not legal in UK

Would it be wrong or illegal to use it just as a chart plotter with the radio turned off?

 

[captainslarty]

Re: Don\'t buy this plotter/DSC VHF on ebay - it\'s not legal in UK

This is pure, utter BS... to the Yaesu guy....
There are companies on the emptynet that you can buy small metalic labels, a thousand for around ten squids, buy them with a realistic ce mark, stick em on....
You are trying to justify the unjustifiable imho.
Radio hams in the late 80's were buying from the usa due to cost FIXING...
Same happens now..
Tell me, apart from the so called 'legality" WHY the set is not suitable...
Hmmmm... it appears it is...
RIP OFF me thinks...
All in MHO of course......

 

[MoodySabre]

Re: Don\'t buy this plotter/DSC VHF on ebay - it\'s not legal in UK

Apparently so - I won't tell /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Drascomber]

Re: Don\'t buy this plotter/DSC VHF on ebay - it\'s not legal in UK

Hi Jon,

Thank you for all the very useful clarification about the regulatory issues. It really is appreciated. (and for a 50% price reduction may be ignored by many)

I'm sorry to say though, that you are on a loser when you try to justify a higher UK price. Once you have developed/ approved a product for the US, the cost of modding it and getting it approved for Europe is small by comparison - especially since when you market it first in the US you have already started to recoup the development cost. We all know this is the BS that we have all heard before so best not to repeat it as it is an insult to our intelligence.

On a more practical note. How much electricity does a unit like this use a) As a chart plotter and receiver b) When VHF transmitting and c) As plotter, receiver and fish finder? I can't find the electricity requirements on the manufacturer's web site.

 

[JonBrooks]

Re: Don\'t buy this plotter/DSC VHF on ebay - it\'s not legal in UK

[ QUOTE ]
This is pure, utter BS... to the Yaesu guy....
There are companies on the emptynet that you can buy small metalic labels, a thousand for around ten squids, buy them with a realistic ce mark, stick em on...
You are trying to justify the unjustifiable imho.


[/ QUOTE ]

If you had read my posts on this properly you would see that I have said it is nothing to do with CE it is about type appproval which has nothing to do with CE!

PVB,

Whilst I understand the frustration that you and other seem to have with this as I say I and Standard or others don't make the rules we have to build the radio etc to meet them.

Like all of you I have to buy equipment too, am as frustrated as most by the reasons why it is chealer in the US and if I could change it I would but I can't.

I feel your comments are miss leading with regards to approval this is not set up or laid out by the comapanies but by the countries relevent bodies i.e. Ofcom, ETSI etc.

Having a personal swipe at me may seem like a good idea but will not solve the issues, am only trying to ensure you all have the right info to hand.
What you choose to do once you have it is down to you.

Bring back Mike Martin!

 

[captainslarty]

Re: Don\'t buy this plotter/DSC VHF on ebay - it\'s not legal in UK

But Jon
PRACTICALLY what reason is there not TO USE THIS IN EUROPE ??

Letters after or before your name do not grant a walkover. I have forgotton most of ine and cant be bothered to use them as it appears sometimes pretentious.

There is NO difference...

Just a scam.. its what a person will pay, nothing more.

Again, stick a CE sticker on it, you will NEVER have an issue.. just a cheaper price.

 

[JonBrooks]

Re: Don\'t buy this plotter/DSC VHF on ebay - it\'s not legal in UK

Drascomber,

Many thanks for your post, have to say the best way I have seen this put, maybe some could take a leaf from your book.

Please understand I am not trying to BS anyone, those who know me know that is not my style and would not do me any favours in the long run.
I have just reported the facts as I know them to the best of my knowledge and research.

I will stick to the techi stuff!

I have little of no info on the combined CPV-350 but.......

Our standard VHF units are all 12v and draw 0.4amp on standby, 1.5amp on receive and 5.5amp on transmit.
Depending on screen size the chartplotters are all 11-36v and draw between 0.4amp (CP-180) to 1amp (CP-500)

Hope that helps

 

[pvb]

Re: Don\'t buy this plotter/DSC VHF on ebay - it\'s not legal in UK

[ QUOTE ]
I feel your comments are miss leading with regards to approval this is not set up or laid out by the comapanies but by the countries relevent bodies i.e. Ofcom, ETSI etc.

[/ QUOTE ]I didn't suggest that the standards were laid down by manufacturers, I said that type approval was only granted if the manufacturer requested it. If a manufacturer decides not to submit a product for European type approval, that's fine, but the product can't then be sold in Europe. On the other hand, if the manufacturer produces an identical product with a different model number and submits it for European type approval, that product can then be sold in Europe.

Which still leaves the question, why is the Standard Horizon GX1500E £130 here when the US-badged version is only half the price?

 

[JonBrooks]

Re: Don\'t buy this plotter/DSC VHF on ebay - it\'s not legal in UK

PVB,

GX-1500 is £99 from most dealers at the mo.

This very question was once asked of our CEO in Japan, why not build one product and aprroved for both markets and it is down to costs.
It is far cheaper to build a unit to US spec rather than EU spec.
No BS it is.

Most companies have two productions line of the same product one built for US one for EU.
Whilst the spec looks the same, the insides are, I am told, not.
I can only work with the facts that I am given.

I would love them to build everything for the EU market then sell it in the US, this could happen and our approval standard is higher than that of the US so an EU product passed for US approval would pass.
Sadly this does not happen.

 

[pvb]

Re: Don\'t buy this plotter/DSC VHF on ebay - it\'s not legal in UK

[ QUOTE ]
On a more practical note. How much electricity does a unit like this use a) As a chart plotter and receiver b) When VHF transmitting and c) As plotter, receiver and fish finder? I can't find the electricity requirements on the manufacturer's web site.

[/ QUOTE ]The CPV350 brochure (which you can download here) gives current drain as Standby 1.2A, Receive 1.7A, Transmit 6.5A. The separate FF520 fishfinder module draws an additional 1.42A max.

 

[pvb]

Re: Don\'t buy this plotter/DSC VHF on ebay - it\'s not legal in UK

[ QUOTE ]
Whilst the spec looks the same, the insides are, I am told, not.

[/ QUOTE ]Ah, that explains it then! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[MoodySabre]

Re: Don\'t buy this plotter/DSC VHF on ebay - it\'s not legal in UK

5 hours to go and now £343. So much for £99 bargain /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Come on own up /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif